I think its time BRD get some loving

[Snugglebutt]

That being said though, for the time being I don't see a need to have a bard for content (it's great to have one, but not necessary) just as much as its great to be able to have 2 monks to DK off each other, but not required. I still firmly believe though that there needs to be damage penalty on ballad and paeon, otherwise it's a literal infinite source of mana/TP with no drawbacks to it. If the songs didn't affect the bard themselves then maybe.

In my experience there is no chance of infinite MP/TP from bard songs without the damage debuff anymore so than with it present. We as bards do not regenerate as much MP as we spend when playing songs, it would require multiple bards to create even close to such a situation and even in such a situation the damage debuff on songs would have no impact on the use of a bard in the party because the debuff itself does so little and only when playing songs. As such I consider it a pointless debuff which would be better off decreased, removed or replaced with a debuff that does not further target our DPS. That is my point, other people started suggesting WD buffs but my issue is with how pointless and unnecessary the song damage debuff is and how it would be appreciated by me if was decreased, changed or removed.