Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

[Kiroh]

Because ilvl dictates BiS now? NO, the stats dictate what is BiS and WoD, ironworks and Dread all have their own stats meaning anyone of them will be BiS imo Dread still has the best stats out of all 3 sets.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dr...obe_of_Healing

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Au...obe_of_Healing

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wi...obe_of_Healing


So in this case the BIS happens to be the hardest one to acquire the Dread, since it gives both SCH and WHM vital stats they need, sure it has no DET but a both classes and use SS and Crit well.

Actually no, for SCH Dread is BiS, for WHM Augmented IW is BiS. The Pie on IW far outweighs the crit or SS for WHM, not even considering the DET.

[Sessurea]

How is having more HP and doing more damage not useful to someone doing EX primals, the newest dungeons, and the CT runs?

Shhh don't fight it with logic, we must let this one blossom......I think his LB is about charged too.....

[Utsu]

How is having more HP and doing more damage not useful to someone doing EX primals, the newest dungeons, and the CT runs?

i120 is enough to do that, and Echo will help. You're not really understanding what I'm saying about the best gear. The best gear offers more than stats, really more. I invite you to read my others posts.

Tl;dr : i130 gear is more than better stats, it gives access for "hardcore raiders" to more possibilities and theorycrafting to up their character and raid potential. There is tons of things you don't even imagine about PvE "HL". i130 is a tool for us, I don't care if non-raiders get it, I just want to know why they want it.

[Elazu]

So your attitude is you don't raid so you don't deserve ilvl 130 gear. And this is why people are labeled as elitist. Your saying im not aloud to have gear because i dont go FcoB, i pay my sub im aloud to have the entire game.

Nope. You call raiders elitist because you get offended by everything a raider says for some reason.

[Snugglebutt]

Gear isn't skill, sure, but endgame gear give access to more possibilities, that's why I'm saying that i130 is/should be one key/tool for raiders, i130 gear is not really useful for other players, and I'm still wondering why they want it.

Your not wondering why they want it, you know why people want it because many people have told you. Your actually choosing to ignore what people have told you, going in one ear and out the other. That is a choice your making to put your fingers in your ears metaphorically speaking.

Your whole argument is highly flawed in multiple ways to begin with...firstly raiders do not need ilvl130 anymore so than people in for example WoD or even grinding 4-man dungeons. Coil can be completed without i130, as can most other aspects of this game so your position is limited to just one thing and that one thing is killing things faster or challenging yourself with your own personal challenges on the content, everything else you said was pointless.

Secondly given we can establish your only argument is on the optimization, challenging yourself and/or killing things faster using ilvl130 gear, this logic is applicable to many other areas of the game which could benefit from i130 if the goal is to kill more efficiently with no difference between coil or other content. Killing faster in coil is no different than killing faster in WoD etc and both benefit from higher ilvl gear in exactly the same way.

Such things are not limited to gear too for example EX trials, 24-man raids plus 4-man dungeons on top of 8-man coils each have that same additional self imposed challenging element from group composition, lowering your ilvl on purpose to challenge yourself, changing tactics or trying it with fewer people. If you truly wanted to challenge yourself and give yourself purpose beyond the clear alone then gear is just one element in that but all the elements are applicable to almost all other areas of this game and not limited to coils.

Gear opens up more possibilities you claim but those possibilities are not limited or only applicable to coils, they are also for all other content in the same way. Clearing Titan EX for example faster is no different than clearing T10 faster, how fast can our group kill Titan or how fast we can clear T13 etc they are the same thing and both things benefit from better gear yet retain the challenging aspect if your willing to use your imagination.

You want to perfect your rotation or DPS? Such things can be done almost any dungeon. What your actually doing is saying can you perfect your rotation and DPS (on T13 for example) and trying to use that as an excuse to object to anyone else using ilvl 130 to perfect theirs on say Titan which is just another example. Both examples are doing the same thing in two different places. The pushing boundaries or optimization is not a valid excuse because it can be done anywhere if they have the gear.

The question then becomes why should coil be the only place to obtain ilvl130 gear? My reaction is why should ilvl130 be only obtainable through coils instead...the answer is nothing more than ego given the use of that gear is equally applicable to all ilvl non-restricted dungeons or trials, raids or content.

[StouterTaru]

i120 is enough to do that, and Echo will help. You're not really understanding what I'm saying about the best gear. The best gear offers more than stats, really more. I invite you to read my others posts.

I did read them, and you repeatedly said it was not useful and not needed for anything but top raiding. It is useful for other parts of the game, and it's not needed in any part of the game, period.

[Utsu]

Your not wondering why they want it, you know why people want it because many people have told you. Your actually choosing to ignore what people have told you, going in one ear and out the other. That is a choice your making to put your fingers in your ears metaphorically speaking.

Secondly given we established your only argument is on the optimization, challenging yourself and/or killing things faster, this logic is applicable to many other areas of the game which could benefit from i130 if the goal is to kill more efficiently with no difference between coil or other content. Killing faster in coil is no different than killing faster in WoD etc and both benefit from higher ilvl gear in exactly the same way. Such things are not limited to gear too for example EX trials, 24-man raids plus 4-man dungeons on top of 8-man coils each have that same additional self imposed challenging element from group composition, lowering your ilvl on purpose to challenge yourself, changing tactics or trying it with fewer people. If you truly wanted to challenge yourself and give yourself purpose beyond the clear alone then gear is just one element in that but all the elements are applicable to almost all other areas of this game.

Your whole argument is highly flawed in multiple ways to begin with...firstly raiders do not need ilvl130 anymore so than people in for example WoD or even grinding 4-man dungeons. Coil can be completed without i130, as can most other aspects of this game so your position is limited to just one thing and that one thing is killing things faster or challenging yourself with your own personal challenges on the content, everything else you said was pointless. Gear opens up more possibilities you claim but those possibilities are not limited or only applicable to coils, they are also for all other content in the same way. Clearing Titan EX for example faster is no different than clearing T10 faster, they are the same thing and both things benefit from better gear yet retain the challenge if your willing to use your imagination.

No, it's not about "challenge", it's just about "optimization" and "theorycrafting". Doing speedkills etc is like upgrading our skill and the coordination of all the members of the party. We could do it with less gear, but there is some details that changed with more stats.

More stats give fun for some ppl, I understood, but the potential of the best gear is more than that.

Yeah okay, best gear makes content easy, of course, but it shouldn't be designed for that as main reason, endgame gear should just be a tool for raiders who cleaned Coil to upgrade their skills and rosters potential.

That's just my opinion, and I'm not elitist because I don't care if you get the same gear as me, I'm just afraid of "giving everything to everyone whatever they want", "fun" seems to be a good reason for you, not for me.

If we do that on Coil that's because it won't be a "zerg" like doing a primal EX or something, Coil is more difficult and fight are longers, that's better for testing.

[FranSeara]

Sorry, you dont know this and you couldnt know. Here's why: Try beating Odin at item level 95 in Df (you won't win) Try beating Shiva Ex at item level 95 ( I'd love to see the vids of that fight!!!) Point being is not eveyone comes into fights at high item levels, some player will try fights at item level, you gotta overgear for that...trust me. Also, the gear in this patch is a JOKE. Non-Raiders and Non Hardcore players who want to clear stuff are going to need every bit of gear they can get. This argument is a Dead Duck in the water, leave it be. Raiders get the best gear first, everyone else waits. We've waited, now please just let US enjoy our leftovers, thank you very much.

Sorry left out the Quote. This is for Utsu, let us see you really challenge yourself. Clear things in DF alone without Your Super Coil friends or Super Coil gear.
Go ahead....

[Kumabear76]

All right, I'll get into this convo, but let me bring in a different point of view. As a game designer, we have to look into the large scale of things to attempt to "predict" how players will react. In some cases, this failed miserably (the Hunt and its abuse when it launched). In the case of i130 gear, the reason why it is locked behind FCoB is quite simple. It is meant as a justifiable reward for doing FCoB. If i130 gear was available outside of FCoB, no one would do it except people who like doing it for fun, thus only a small portion of players would continue FCoB without a viable reward in place for all that (theoretical) hard grueling work. It's the risk vs reward system at its finest.

As for the argument of elitist raiders keeping i130 stuff. That's not it at all. As one person said, you have to understand why someone wants i130 gear. As it stands, i130 gear is a reward for FCoB. With FCoB being the hardest content in game at the moment, those who have it carry status. They are seen as "badass" because of it. So it stands to reason that other people want i130 gear so that they can feel badass and carry that status as well. Problem is, in its current state, upgrading WoD gear to 130 vs cranking through FCoB is quite a different challenge.

Any player can join a hunt LS and grind out seals to purchase mats for upgrading POE gear. That doesn't take skill, only patience. FCoB, on the other hand, requires players to know their roles and mechanics of the fight. They need to hit certain requirements or repeatedly fail. That kind of stuff requires skill.

But I also argue that gear doesn't equal skill either. Rather, i130 is a reward for that skill. In the end, there is the old saying; "If everyone is special, then no one is."

Before anyone goes blasting me for being an elitist, just know, i hate elitism to its absolute core (I JUST beat T5 the other day). It damages the community. I am not supporting elitists, I am simply saying that i130 should remain as rewards for those who strive to be the best in their roles.

[Snugglebutt]

That's just my opinion, and I'm not elitist because I don't care if you get the same gear as me, I'm just afraid of "giving everything to everyone whatever they want", "fun" seems to be a good reason for you, not for me.

Clearly you do care else you would not be posting in here against the suggestion. Your actively trying to shoot down or shut down the suggestion because you care so much about it. What seems clear to me is your ignoring why people are telling you it should be opened up, the reasons they are giving you and your doing so because it damages your ego if others had ilvl130 but never got it the same way as you did whether they got ilvl130 through 24-man content or trials, even 4-man dungeons as opposed to 8-man content. there is only one reason why anyone would be against opening up where could obtain ilvl130 gear and that can be summed up in one word "Ego", nothing more and nothing less.