Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

[Utsu]

.....For now nobody cares for that, all you care is just number of potency put on skill description, character could swing middle finger with some shiny screen effects and all you'd be discussing is how big is the dmg potency and not the ridiculousnes of the skill animation. For you its just the sequence of button presses and that is all the mastery there is. Once everybody knows the button sequence, thats it, we are all equal in skill. All thats left is jumping through hoopes in unison in the instance called the raid. Baiscaly its just group dancing.

Gear isn't skill, sure, but endgame gear give access to more possibilities, that's why I'm saying that i130 is/should be one key/tool for raiders, i130 gear is not really useful for other players, and I'm still wondering why they want it.

[StouterTaru]

Gear isn't skill, sure, but endgame gear give access to more possibilities, that's why I'm saying that i130 is/should be one key/tool for raiders, i130 gear is not really useful for other players, and I'm still wondering why they want it.

How is having more HP and doing more damage not useful to someone doing EX primals, the newest dungeons, and the CT runs?

[Sessurea]

How is having more HP and doing more damage not useful to someone doing EX primals, the newest dungeons, and the CT runs?

Shhh don't fight it with logic, we must let this one blossom......I think his LB is about charged too.....

[Utsu]

How is having more HP and doing more damage not useful to someone doing EX primals, the newest dungeons, and the CT runs?

i120 is enough to do that, and Echo will help. You're not really understanding what I'm saying about the best gear. The best gear offers more than stats, really more. I invite you to read my others posts.

Tl;dr : i130 gear is more than better stats, it gives access for "hardcore raiders" to more possibilities and theorycrafting to up their character and raid potential. There is tons of things you don't even imagine about PvE "HL". i130 is a tool for us, I don't care if non-raiders get it, I just want to know why they want it.

[StouterTaru]

i120 is enough to do that, and Echo will help. You're not really understanding what I'm saying about the best gear. The best gear offers more than stats, really more. I invite you to read my others posts.

I did read them, and you repeatedly said it was not useful and not needed for anything but top raiding. It is useful for other parts of the game, and it's not needed in any part of the game, period.

[FranSeara]

Sorry, you dont know this and you couldnt know. Here's why: Try beating Odin at item level 95 in Df (you won't win) Try beating Shiva Ex at item level 95 ( I'd love to see the vids of that fight!!!) Point being is not eveyone comes into fights at high item levels, some player will try fights at item level, you gotta overgear for that...trust me. Also, the gear in this patch is a JOKE. Non-Raiders and Non Hardcore players who want to clear stuff are going to need every bit of gear they can get. This argument is a Dead Duck in the water, leave it be. Raiders get the best gear first, everyone else waits. We've waited, now please just let US enjoy our leftovers, thank you very much.

Sorry left out the Quote. This is for Utsu, let us see you really challenge yourself. Clear things in DF alone without Your Super Coil friends or Super Coil gear.
Go ahead....

[alsims2007]

Sorry, you dont know this and you couldnt know. Here's why: Try beating Odin at item level 95 in Df (you won't win) Try beating Shiva Ex at item level 95 ( I'd love to see the vids of that fight!!!) Point being is not eveyone comes into fights at high item levels, some player will try fights at item level, you gotta overgear for that...trust me. Also, the gear in this patch is a JOKE. Non-Raiders and Non Hardcore players who want to clear stuff are going to need every bit of gear they can get. This argument is a Dead Duck in the water, leave it be. Raiders get the best gear first, everyone else waits. We've waited, now please just let US enjoy our leftovers, thank you very much.

If that's the minimum ilvl to get in then yes it can be completed even in duty finder. Have I tried those particular fights a minimum ilvl, no dont plan to either. Unlock, clear, never touch again unless helping friend or fc member. That's how I've done all trials. I've went into onlder coils at min ilvl (on an alt) and still managed to come out near the top of dps (if not the top) with ridiculously over geared players. The ilvl requirement is not the ilvl requirement needed to beat content. Example T9: was beaten in i90 pre echo and now you cant even enter without being i105. So yes a good player can enter at minimum ilvl and clear. Ilvl requirement and echo is so non raider can be closer to raiders skill.
Also only job I dont recommend being at min ilvl is tanks. Good luck at i95 while everyone else is getting close to i130

[Snugglebutt]

Gear isn't skill, sure, but endgame gear give access to more possibilities, that's why I'm saying that i130 is/should be one key/tool for raiders, i130 gear is not really useful for other players, and I'm still wondering why they want it.

Your not wondering why they want it, you know why people want it because many people have told you. Your actually choosing to ignore what people have told you, going in one ear and out the other. That is a choice your making to put your fingers in your ears metaphorically speaking.

Your whole argument is highly flawed in multiple ways to begin with...firstly raiders do not need ilvl130 anymore so than people in for example WoD or even grinding 4-man dungeons. Coil can be completed without i130, as can most other aspects of this game so your position is limited to just one thing and that one thing is killing things faster or challenging yourself with your own personal challenges on the content, everything else you said was pointless.

Secondly given we can establish your only argument is on the optimization, challenging yourself and/or killing things faster using ilvl130 gear, this logic is applicable to many other areas of the game which could benefit from i130 if the goal is to kill more efficiently with no difference between coil or other content. Killing faster in coil is no different than killing faster in WoD etc and both benefit from higher ilvl gear in exactly the same way.

Such things are not limited to gear too for example EX trials, 24-man raids plus 4-man dungeons on top of 8-man coils each have that same additional self imposed challenging element from group composition, lowering your ilvl on purpose to challenge yourself, changing tactics or trying it with fewer people. If you truly wanted to challenge yourself and give yourself purpose beyond the clear alone then gear is just one element in that but all the elements are applicable to almost all other areas of this game and not limited to coils.

Gear opens up more possibilities you claim but those possibilities are not limited or only applicable to coils, they are also for all other content in the same way. Clearing Titan EX for example faster is no different than clearing T10 faster, how fast can our group kill Titan or how fast we can clear T13 etc they are the same thing and both things benefit from better gear yet retain the challenging aspect if your willing to use your imagination.

You want to perfect your rotation or DPS? Such things can be done almost any dungeon. What your actually doing is saying can you perfect your rotation and DPS (on T13 for example) and trying to use that as an excuse to object to anyone else using ilvl 130 to perfect theirs on say Titan which is just another example. Both examples are doing the same thing in two different places. The pushing boundaries or optimization is not a valid excuse because it can be done anywhere if they have the gear.

The question then becomes why should coil be the only place to obtain ilvl130 gear? My reaction is why should ilvl130 be only obtainable through coils instead...the answer is nothing more than ego given the use of that gear is equally applicable to all ilvl non-restricted dungeons or trials, raids or content.

[Utsu]

Your not wondering why they want it, you know why people want it because many people have told you. Your actually choosing to ignore what people have told you, going in one ear and out the other. That is a choice your making to put your fingers in your ears metaphorically speaking.

Secondly given we established your only argument is on the optimization, challenging yourself and/or killing things faster, this logic is applicable to many other areas of the game which could benefit from i130 if the goal is to kill more efficiently with no difference between coil or other content. Killing faster in coil is no different than killing faster in WoD etc and both benefit from higher ilvl gear in exactly the same way. Such things are not limited to gear too for example EX trials, 24-man raids plus 4-man dungeons on top of 8-man coils each have that same additional self imposed challenging element from group composition, lowering your ilvl on purpose to challenge yourself, changing tactics or trying it with fewer people. If you truly wanted to challenge yourself and give yourself purpose beyond the clear alone then gear is just one element in that but all the elements are applicable to almost all other areas of this game.

Your whole argument is highly flawed in multiple ways to begin with...firstly raiders do not need ilvl130 anymore so than people in for example WoD or even grinding 4-man dungeons. Coil can be completed without i130, as can most other aspects of this game so your position is limited to just one thing and that one thing is killing things faster or challenging yourself with your own personal challenges on the content, everything else you said was pointless. Gear opens up more possibilities you claim but those possibilities are not limited or only applicable to coils, they are also for all other content in the same way. Clearing Titan EX for example faster is no different than clearing T10 faster, they are the same thing and both things benefit from better gear yet retain the challenge if your willing to use your imagination.

No, it's not about "challenge", it's just about "optimization" and "theorycrafting". Doing speedkills etc is like upgrading our skill and the coordination of all the members of the party. We could do it with less gear, but there is some details that changed with more stats.

More stats give fun for some ppl, I understood, but the potential of the best gear is more than that.

Yeah okay, best gear makes content easy, of course, but it shouldn't be designed for that as main reason, endgame gear should just be a tool for raiders who cleaned Coil to upgrade their skills and rosters potential.

That's just my opinion, and I'm not elitist because I don't care if you get the same gear as me, I'm just afraid of "giving everything to everyone whatever they want", "fun" seems to be a good reason for you, not for me.

If we do that on Coil that's because it won't be a "zerg" like doing a primal EX or something, Coil is more difficult and fight are longers, that's better for testing.

[Snugglebutt]

That's just my opinion, and I'm not elitist because I don't care if you get the same gear as me, I'm just afraid of "giving everything to everyone whatever they want", "fun" seems to be a good reason for you, not for me.

Clearly you do care else you would not be posting in here against the suggestion. Your actively trying to shoot down or shut down the suggestion because you care so much about it. What seems clear to me is your ignoring why people are telling you it should be opened up, the reasons they are giving you and your doing so because it damages your ego if others had ilvl130 but never got it the same way as you did whether they got ilvl130 through 24-man content or trials, even 4-man dungeons as opposed to 8-man content. there is only one reason why anyone would be against opening up where could obtain ilvl130 gear and that can be summed up in one word "Ego", nothing more and nothing less.