Yoshi P: Please Consider a Better Raiding System in 3.0 - Beyond Statics

[Verlyn]

Every other MMO wants to have a word with you.

PUGs/LFG add to the life of a game, or do you magically think the games were carried by the backbone of the statics. Hardcore statics and core raid groups have always been at the forefront and we won't get anywhere unless they do the stuff first, but you do realize that when one static had a member missing and they did a pick-up member, that's PUGing in its sense right? Seeing LFG or the PF alive with shouts for pick-up groups is a sign of a healthy game.

Come see me in a few years when your server becomes a ghost town devoid of this chat and find out how bleak that makes the future of a game feel; I can guarantee you not many new starters will stay long in a game, coming so late in its life, to find that it will be hard for them to start raiding.

99% of why my friends quit is because of this and it wasn't due to lack of effort.

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say Pug content shouldn't exist, I'm saying there should exist some content that isn't so easily puggable (basically, like Final Coil is now). There is a difference of an order of magnitude between the two concepts.

You have plenty of (Raid level, no less!) content that is puggable right now, this minute and the game is seeing pleeenty of activity. If your friends left the game because they think otherwise, then I don't know what to tell you. They're all wrong.

Game's always been super pug friendly at every level but the very top and this is fine. I doubt it will change any time in the future, thankfully, because there needs to exist a balance. If everything is as faceroll as WOD, then nobody has anything to strive for and little reason to join a Free Company or gather a group of friends. Which, again, is the cornerstone of MMORPGs. Yes, even the ones you think would like a word with me right now.

Right now, Yoshida is adding an easy pug mode and a hard mode for every raid. I'd think this should please you.

[Atomnium]

But see? Where's your proof of this radically changed opinion? What happened in 2.45 where he says he's against it? You're basically just perpetuating a rumor that either started/restarted or gained a wider audience around that time without a link to back up the statement. Especially if he's previously said it's ok, which I vaguely recall now that you mention that.

O.O;; Awww, calm your socks dude :O
Since when I'm "perpetuating rumors", I'm not even the one who talked about it in the first place... Sapphic did :3 (I'm so sorry Sapphic, it's your problem now, aw.)

Not to mention, limiting chest drops based on how many have cleared it sends a clear signal to Content sellers.

I didn't know that clear selling subject was a matter of life and death, to me it was just earning pocket money with sells to buy housing stuffs xD.

[Kiara]

No reduction of drop rates. RNG is terrible enough as it is.

To clarify, I'm not advocating lower drop rates *only*. I mentioned a system Yoshi P had in 1.0 with a Non-100% Equipment Drop Rate, but WITH a 100% Token Drop with each Win. (So people could always be making progress towards a drop, and still be incentivized to play / repeat battles with friends / FC / LS mates outside of the first 8 players.)

Thanks.

[Dererk]

The problem is it isn't too hard its a challenge yes but the problem is really with the people some don't even bother learning before hand on how to do the fight others excluded people for being in their eyes bad their being impatient they want it done for a chance to get loot I can be identified by this a bit sadly I can admit it. But it's a whole group effort if one person is holding every one back or don't even know what their doing then ya sure they get kicked is this ok yes and no. Yes because like every one we all want to get progress but no because Yes this excludes alot who could get better.

Short answer the lock out system and difficulty is fine its we the people who must change the ones who hold others back need to get better and the A???? like me need to be more patient.

[Kiara]

I didn't know that clear selling subject was a matter of life and death, to me it was just earning pocket money with sells to buy housing stuffs xD.

I agree Atom. It feels like some people have resistance to allowing a more flexible Raid Group (having more than 8 players being able to raid per week together (rotating in, etc.)) because it might cut into their profits for Selling Clears?

People who want to spend money will spend money regardless. I've seen shouts & PF requests for paid help on FATE grinding (before the Atma Drop Rate increase). I've seen PF for paying Tanks to help grind Primal Horses, LOL.

I hope the Dev Team considers updates for 3.0.

[SirTaint]

SE has done good loot systems before: Neo Nyzul Island had a great progressive system in 11. The respective bosses dropped armor for this lvl and a token for an item a lvl above them. Ex. lvl20 boss dropped at random lvl20 armor but also a lvl40 token. The token system is described below.


Astraria

Upon defeating a boss from a specific floor a set number of times, players will be rewarded with a part of an astrarium which can be redeemed for one piece of armor from the next higher boss floor (except Platinum Astrarium). Astraria can be redeemed for the associated rewards at the NPC Berangere in Aht Urhgan Whitegate (L-9). One part of an astrarium is obtained in addition to the armor which normally drops from boss battles. After defeating a boss, a message will be displayed showing how many parts of that floor's astrarium you have in possession, and this can also be checked at Berangere. Astraria must be redeemed before they can be re-acquired (you can only possess one of each).

Bronze astrarium (+1 armor): Defeat floor 20 boss 5 times.
Silver astrarium (+2 armor): Defeat floor 40 boss 5 times.
Mythril astrarium (+3 armor): Defeat floor 60 boss 5 times.
Gold astrarium (HQ armor): Defeat floor 80 boss 5 times.
Platinum astrarium (HQ armor): Defeat floor 100 boss once.

[Duelle]

Raid size of course would alleviate a lot of the issues, but your claim that "Lockouts have nothing to do with why people aren't seeing content and running with their FC" is just not true.

I know quite a few FC that have *great* players (who perform well in end game), but they are beyond the 8 pre-established people in their FC's static.

Which again, goes back to raid size.

Back when I raided in WoW we had a core group that ran 10-man hard modes while also having raid nights were we'd run 25-man content. Your class leaders and the better players in the guild would be part of the core group while your family members and more casual individuals would run 25-mans (one of our core group members would bring his mom to DPS 25-man raids, for example). Here's the thing: they were effectively seeing the same content (Ulduar). Sure, the 25-man group was not pushing the big red button for Mimiron or killing Steelbreaker last during the Iron Council fight, but they were still seeing the same dungeon and meeting the same bosses.

I'll admit this modus operandi died when Blizzard merged raid lockouts (back then you would have one lockout for Ulduar 10-man and one lockout for Ulduar 25-man, allowing you to run the instance twice per week but for two different raid sizes), but it was still infinitely better than allowing the same instance to be spammed with super low drop rates.

If there was no loot lockout / penalty, even keeping at a fixed 8 Player Raid, they could've joined and run w/ their FC via being rotated in for each raid:

* First team (8 players).
* Rotate in extra FC / LS / Friends that couldn't go the first run.

Instead, they are all forced to start finding their own static or just PUG / Party Finder each week.

Again, all you'd need is a 24-man mode for the content in question. If it turns out like anything that I've seen during the time I raided, you'd still have spots open to fill on raid nights (we used to ask friendly guilds if they had anyone that wanted to raid with us that week or, worse came to worst, PuGged). If you're worried about strict raid sizes I'd suggest SE lift the idea behind flex raiding from WoW.

[rwyan]

I personally do not mind the raiding system as it exists today. Yes, some content seems best suited for statics - but is that really so bad? The current end-game is very casual friendly and fairly accessible. The only thing that isn't accessible are things like some raiding content that due to certain mechanics and rules, favors statics. While that is frustrating on one hand, I don't find it so bad on the other since most of the rewards from that content seem targeted towards the more "hardcore" crowd anyways.

If anything, I would like to see a greater variety of engaging end-game content. Hunts were an honest effort but boring. Treasure hunting was once again another honest effort but could be improved upon. Beastman dailies are just that.... dailies....

[SarcasmMisser]

The whole reason we have mediums to converse with one another, (say/shout/party), and even group up with other players, (party finder/linkshells/free companies), is to form up groups to tackle content. Blaming statics for finding people who want to stick together for the greater benefit of each other is asinine.

At this point it even just sounds like people are angry that others have strong bonds and form friendships. I've never known a truly outgoing, social player who hasn't been able to get into a static.

Honestly I don't care about the lock out, make it whatever at this point but statics aren't going away as long as the content is difficult. It's a sanctuary from how depressing pugging hard content is. Hell I even have a static for primal mount farming so people don't have to always lot against 7 other players who don't have it, we're on 2/8 Kirin mounts.

[Ladon]

At this point it even just sounds like people are angry that others have strong bonds and form friendships. I've never known a truly outgoing, social player who hasn't been able to get into a static.

This has nothing to do with any of this. In fact one of the main issues brought up in this very thread completely contradicts this notion. That is people with MORE THAN 7 other friends want to actually play with all of their friends and not just the same 7 other people. In fact, statics tend to form cliques which are completely counterproductive to building strong bonds and friendships.

The other thing I don't understand that seems to be brought up a lot in this thread is this idea that the proposed changes would somehow prevent you from maintaining your statics. What exactly about the proposed changes make any of your come this conclusion? There is absolutely nothing to stop anyone from forming a static and doing the same content with the same people if they wanted to regardless if weekly lockouts were in place.