Yoshi P: Please Consider a Better Raiding System in 3.0 - Beyond Statics

[raelgun]

raelgun -

The biggest complainers are the ones not doing enough, the ones that are doing fine and is working for is a lot larger then you think but stay quiet about it.

Raid size yes, but thats all relative and can change, I prefer a large raid size but still pro lock out, this game also actually does have just as lenient make ups, but the class loot is inconsistent more then anything, blm and smn armour is shared but mnk and drg isnt yet uses the same primary stat. however RNG is still RNG

The system exists in other mmos and people have got it to work in those, thats what you are not getting through, so whats the difference here, the playerbase cannot adapt or think out of the box to get with the system, I have provided a solution, get a roster above the size of 8 and rotate people out.

And yes, people really do want this game to be more pug open or even more open to gain 'help' from those with experience, Ive had no issue recruiting and always get on day responses and be able to bargain when I needed to.

What is wrong with playing with people who are on your same level, why does it always have to be 'friends', its a nice thought, but end game is mostly testing your self in coordination as well.

Anti social to whom, thats not for you to decide, social interactions is defined by people themselves that are interacting with each other directly, not you or any outsider. If people want to just stick with their end game group, let them, thats not bad in anyway, stop using that as an excuse, they may actually prefer it.

Also to samantha, 9 jobs, not every one plays 9 jobs, very few people bother with 9 jobs, so how is that representative, also I use wow as an example as a lot of the systems here is extremely similar to it.

[Alipoprocks]

The biggest complainers are the ones not doing enough, the ones that are doing fine and is working for is a lot larger then you think but stay quiet about it.

Raid size yes, but thats all relative and can change, I prefer a large raid size but still pro lock out, this game also actually does have just as lenient make ups, but the class loot is inconsistent more then anything, blm and smn armour is shared but mnk and drg isnt yet uses the same primary stat.

The system exists in other mmos and people have got it to work in those, thats what you are not getting through, so whats the difference here, the playerbase cannot adapt or think out of the box to get with the system, I have provided a solution, get a roster above the size of 8 and rotate people out.

I am glad it is so easy for you to get a roster big enough to rotate. I am seeing people quit or take a break from this game so often it has been a very tall task to get enough people.

[Terrini]

Also you can have more then 8 people, its called having a roster, most guilds in wow and rift do this, 10 man raids have like 13-15 people in the roster, this is a people problem in 14 to only have 8 and not expand and rotate people out.
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The system exists in other mmos and people have got it to work in those, thats what you are not getting through, so whats the difference here, the playerbase cannot adapt or think out of the box to get with the system, I have provided a solution, get a roster above the size of 8 and rotate people out.

The issue with this is those "other" people are "alternates" so if someone cannot make a raid night, you take his understudy. That's only if someone can't make a raid night and most people try to be pretty punctual for them. I've known people who are always left out in this situation in MMOs and they get told "oh yeah, you're in the group" but never actually see the content they signed up for.

Anti social to whom, thats not for you to decide, social interactions is defined by people themselves, not you or any outsider.

I think the above is fairly anti-social and exclusive, and even pretty mean because it's always the core group that gets in, and backups never see anything. I work shift work and I prefer to be casual so the endgame raid scene it's out of my league, but really, your suggestion isn't a solution. Maybe some people would be nice enough to actually swap out, but a lot of people will stick with the core that has the actual experience already instead of rotating in extras.

[Ladon]

The biggest complainers are the ones not doing enough, the ones that are doing fine and is working for is a lot larger then you think but stay quiet about it.

Raid size yes, but thats all relative and can change, I prefer a large raid size but still pro lock out, this game also actually does have just as lenient make ups, but the class loot is inconsistent more then anything, blm and smn armour is shared but mnk and drg isnt yet uses the same primary stat.


The system exists in other mmos and people have got it to work in those, thats what you are not getting through, so whats the difference here, the playerbase cannot adapt or think out of the box to get with the system, I have provided a solution, get a roster above the size of 8 and rotate people out.

How the hell do you expect players to adapt when the system restricts you to a VERY SPECIFIC SYSTEM. You go in with your 8 man static. You get some randomly generated loot. You wait another week to do it again. What is 'thinking out of the box' going to get me? How about you provide some actual examples rather than just throwing out these generic suggestions like "players need to adapt" or "think outside the box."

And really, don't even bring in this silent majority BS. You have no idea what their stance is and I can easily claim they agree with my side rather than your side. Completely pointless.

And you are wrong, this specific system has NOT even existed in another MMO. Another MMO has never restricted players to weekly caps with just 8 people, such a high number of different jobs all without a token system. You are just taking bits and pieces from other MMOs, forming your own system in mind and claiming it has always worked.

I mean come on! Listen to yourself!

Raid size is relative? Relative to what?
The game actually has lenient makeup? Not with 8 player limitations it doesn't.
Some armor is shared, weapons are not. Convenient to forget this little aspect but oh I guess it's completely fine if a Dragoon lance drops 4 weeks in a row and you don't even have a dragoon in your static.
Why are you pro-lockout? What exactly do you gain from this system?

[raelgun]

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The fact that they aren't doing anything about it and just whinging and wanting the system to change says it all they cant adapt to a system in this game thats been in place for over a year now.

Why cant you have in your team a number greater then 8 and rotate them out on a daily basis, whats stopping you from this, greed is whats making people just stick to 8 and not expanding on this number.

You make sure that on at least a monthly basis pretty much every one that signed up had a fair share of raiding, a good way to organise like this, and just rotate people out based on this figure, this helps take account of real life situations if someone cant make it whilst the group can still run on that day, consistent raiding is key and the experience and gear is kept in the group and not to a random pug or someone that you dont do runs with.

Also means less explaining and more efficient runs, less cancelling of raid nights also.

Other mmos do this just fine in their raid roster and have functioned like this for years.

you can click on any guild on this page and find out how they organise their raids.
http://www.wowprogress.com/

Also though I agree that I dont know other peoples stance is, the number of posts in this thread is barely a majority either and just noisy people kicking up a fuss that they cant get what they want and do not class it as representative.

And yes this system does exist in other mmos, again using wow as an example, has a weekly cap, actually had 10 man raiding (and raid sized have changed over the years), has a lot of classes with 3 specs and for most specific gears and roles and you can still gear up with out tokens just fine btw.

Yes weapons are not but still true for armour though the inconsistent nature is what bothers me more on this aspect.

Now the big question, I prefer lock outs as it keeps a hierarchy of players to be in groups of equivalently skilled players, I rather play with people on my level good or bad and progress in this nature, it makes the choice that much more important.
If lockouts didnt exist, then people who are dont raid much or not very good will ask 'help' of those in that skill set as opposed to finding those in their skill set to progress.

This leads to problems where and this does happen, the person in question that doesnt want to bother working towards raiding bugs and even guilt trips said higher end raiders, its easy to say no, but you still have said person bugging you.

It is not good for the raiding if people can go in and get everyone a clear when they are not in a position of their skill set to do the content, they should work towards doing it in their own power and more importantly, people in their skill sets.

Raids arent just for the clear, they are also designed for the journey, the experience working together with others to get that boss down which can take weeks or months for some groups, this becomes highly diluted if you can just constantly run the raids, pretty much like how all the primals have become, each kill means very little now from those, thats what will happen if end game raids like coil become unlocked like that.

Also not to mention, you then bring an unprepared player whos not ready for this level of content who hasnt practiced the tighter timings, skill set required in their roles for damage or whatever into that pool, and such this player due to being unprepared for the encounter to another group that do know what they are doing and had the many weeks or months of practising together, why is this fair.

The playerbase should do more to improve themselves, not just get a easy kill.