there's a lot of sensitive people in this game

[Inflorescence]

How ironic. The op clearly outlines what they meant by what they said. You however, have decided to interpret what they said yourself. Your accusations are as follows:

I mean geez. I agree people should be more polite online, BUT, that also includes people not reading into things and making assumptions about every little thing.

You say you have all this experience in mmos (which I have to assume is true), but yet you cannot even give someone the benefit of the doubt over something like this?? To me that displays a lack of experience.

If the op and you were in my party and they said what they said and you decided to make all these accusations, you would've been kicked for harassment by insulting my team and disrupting the duty by being overly dramatic and making baseless accusations you cannot verify.

You assume too much.

Quick sidenote: I'm not claiming to have "all this experience in mmos," just FFXIV. The reason behind the claim was only to illustrate that I've been in many DF groups (virtually none with my FC), and have seen far less issues with my groups than Chris has had.

The semantics I was referring to were only in regards to the word "shorthand," not the main point of discussion. Otherwise, the issue at hand has been etiquette, not semantics at all.

I wouldn't argue with you that I am making assumptions about the situation and accusations against Chris, just as everyone who came here (including you) that didn't come just to weigh in on the "should healers DPS" debate. I spent two lengthy posts defending my accusations (against you defending yours), but my assumptions were mostly left out of the conversation; the only action that I held against Chris so far was the "holy?" that he brought up in the OP. In fact, my case is essentially rooted in taking him at his word that he didn't say anything else; if he had said more things to clarify the friendly manner he is trying to make it seem like he was speaking in, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because he wouldn't have been kicked.

My assumptions actually are that the only word in the run wasn't "holy," because the only other sentence Chris mentioned was "they didn't like my attitude," and this doesn't look like a common situation:

>Chris: holy?
>Tank: I don't like your attitude.
>Healer: I don't like your attitude, either.
>Chris has been dismissed from the party.

Which, according to Chris, were literally the only words spoken. Unless Tank and Healer spent a few extra lines talking about just how much they didn't like his attitude, while he sat quietly taking the punishment. And while he's so quiet in game, he is very vocal on the forums about the issues of FC mates partying with non-FC members. But trust him, he never said a word beyond holy.

Then there's the issue of this post:

i have literally been told the opposite from most healers i've met and played with. even the healer that replaced them when i joined in progress said they weren't doing their full duties as a healer.

either way healer dps or no kicking somebody for saying "holy?" once it's stupid and if you believe otherwise i hope i never get a run with you

Which could absolutely mean that he joined a different party in progress, but the post does say that it's the tank and healer that got replaced.

The fact of the matter is, however, that no matter how much of that is true or untrue, it doesn't matter, because I'm not defending the decision to vote kick him. My position is one of working with people that you don't enjoy playing with, because that is simply how you deal with people in general. So if we were in a party, and I was presented with a "holy?" I would just explain why I wasn't Holy-ing, because there would have been a reason. And his disregard for the fact that I do know that Holy exists, and I am not using it, and there might be a reason for that, would leave me a little perturbed at him overstepping his boundaries.

[Volsung]

If "Holy?" is all that was said, and you got vote kicked, they're definitely in the wrong.

Healers don't have to dps, but at the same time they could have just said "no thanks
I don't feel comfortable doing that." It would have made all the difference.

[Miya_Carbuncle]

You say a lot of people are really sensitive in the game, but this kind of thing has only happened to you twice, and you're making a big deal out of it as if it happens all of the time... okay. If it has only happened like twice, I really don't see how the title makes any sense. You're being just as overly sensitive as the people who kicked you.

[Lycelle]

Holy crap, this has been going on for 8 pages?

[SendoTakeshi]

Holy is one of the best healing spells.

[Atomnium]

it's the internet, if you're going to be that sensitive here you might as well stay in a bubble because somebody that actually wants to be mean will make it their job to annoy you or hurt your feelings which you make very easy.

Better don't try to find any logical answer Yes the internet is a very sensitive area, sometime you don't even need to say a word, your glamour or your comment is enough to get kicked from duty finder xD
As a funny example, I was doing a Wanderer Palace Hard with a FC friend some days ago, I had my full Odin glamour as BRD... I got kicked by the 2 other guys for cheating reason, just because I was looking like Odin.

[Zfz]

"holy?"

Let's learn something from the Japanese, whom most of the world recognizes as one of the most well mannered culture in existence. They have a phrase, literally "not enough words", meaning that there are often times when you could express yourself fully with more words, yet you did not, leading to unnecessary misunderstandings. It arises out of the concept of "consideration".

Instead of demanding everyone else "stop being so sensitive", the Japanese demands themselves to be sensitive to others. As a result, people are not quick to judge, not quick to dismiss.

Yes it's the Internet. But no reason why the Internet cannot be courteous---in fact it started as a courteous place but was ruined when the masses of ungrateful uncultured unmannered newbies invaded the place and called it their own.

Let's be considerate because the Internet isn't what it is, it 's what we make it be.

[Ladyaceous]

...The semantics I was referring to were only in regards to the word "shorthand," not the main point of discussion. Otherwise, the issue at hand has been etiquette, not semantics at all.

I wouldn't argue with you that I am making assumptions about the situation and accusations against Chris, just as everyone who came here (including you) that didn't come just to weigh in on the "should healers DPS" debate....snip....

And that's why I said "how ironic". I know what you were referring to. "Shorthand" is what it's commonly referred to, maybe it's just my circle. No one refers to it as an imperative. Doesn't matter you got the point.

The problem I have with you is that you are the one arguing semantics (the meaning of language) which is really what this is all about. Let's take a look at what the op said (unedited original post btw):

got kicked out of a lost city duty run for simply saying "holy?" to a healer. tank pulled everything before the steps, i popped mantra then played foe's but they stood there even when nobody needed healing. didn't say anything, figured maybe they weren't comfortable with using holy or cleric stance with a group of enemies at 50-75%. they got lower though, nobody needed any healing and still nothing so i wrote "holy?" and that was it. nothing more and nothing less. tank and healer were in an fc together and booted me because "they didn't like my attitude" lol. not the first time something like this has happened either to me or to randoms and friends. this really needs to stop. it's the internet, if you're going to be that sensitive here you might as well stay in a bubble because somebody that actually wants to be mean will make it their job to annoy you or hurt your feelings which you make very easy.

This is the "semantical" post you made:

post #50

It is you who is trying to redefine what the op said. It is you who is trying to determine the actual meaning of their words. They clearly tell you what they meant. There is no reason to engage in semantics, which you are guilty of.

And as far as "my semantics", there are no semantics. Shorthand is what I and others call it. If there's a better word for "shorttalk" then I'll call it that. Pretty sure no one thinks I'm trying to redefine anything.

*edit

God...I really hate hearing "semantics" "hyperbole" and "ad hominem" anymore. Such trendy words now.

[Delorean]

Because the onus is on the sensitive person to change their ways and not the jerks. Got it.

Well a jerk is a jerk, but someone who is pitifully sensitive views any kind of criticism coming from someone they don't know as a jerk.

You're being just as overly sensitive as the people who kicked you.

for some reason i just don't think that kicking someone for opening their mouth and presuming that they are asking you to do something you do not want to do is in equal measure to being upset that there are people who instantly fly to the conclusion that you are acting like a punk.

it is not an exaggeration to say that the best way to get along with randoms is to shut up and say absolutely nothing - because we tolerate this type of antisocial behavior.

For example, queued up for Expert Roulette a few weeks ago. It had been a while since I last played and I died in an AoE I was expecting to be able to stun. The key point here, is that I forgot Holy stuns. So the healer comments on my death, saying I could try not to stand in things. And I quickly retort that people could just not use stun in their rotation.

Obviously I realize Holy stuns after opening my big mouth and explained that I forgot and was expecting to be able to stun the aoe. This is not personal for me, but the healer is obviously very offended even though I have already apologized and said "my bad" etc. but they just wanted to keep going on and on and on when there was nothing else to discuss.

It's like, at no point was this vulgar or personal on my end, but the healer was just so ridiculously upset about it. =|

They could have kicked me, they probably wanted to. Just because I had a fucking momentary lapse in judgment. It was such a shitty feeling to leave with. I hate it when people try to justify an attitude that make 4 man dungeons an environment where we are all walking on thin ice, it is not good for the game.

[Stihllodeing]

..snip...

Nailed it.

...snip....I hate it when people try to justify an attitude that make 4 man dungeons an environment where we are all walking on thin ice, it is not good for the game.

Boy, me too man.

I quit trying to coddle every overly emotional online player I meet. You have a right to say things and ask questions without someone telling you, "you are curt and should act like this".

I ask healers all the time, "Are you just going to use cure 1?". I don't care if their feelings are hurt or not. That question does not violate the ToS so I have a right to ask it. If that is all they are going to do, it changes my strategy. I have a right to try and perform as optimally as possible when tanking whether or not that optimization greatly impacts the duty or not.

This whole "don't like your attitude" is flat out CRAP.