3 star222 diff/40 dura crafting rotation...

[Shinzoku]

I just used Mithrie's rotation that is posted on another thread in this section, and that worked well for me. Just waiting on Moonstones, but I made my ltw lucis and have the hq token items for gsm and alc already premade (and enough mats to start making the bsm token items). I tried his rotation using Manipulation instead on MMI and found that I preferred MMI. Also my FC had the +10 minute to food buff up and I found that infinitely helpful while crafting these

[Empty-handed]

Mithries rotation is flexible in taking advantage of ToT procs. however, it does not optimize CP in case RNG does not give you any Tots

what i did for my Lucis is:

CZ, IQ, (TOT when possible)
ST2, WN (Tot Once while WN is up)
RS, 3 or 2 HT
CS2 (tot before/after), refresh CZ
if durability is 10 MM1
if durability is 15 HT (risky haha since there is no ST2. if you are lucky with Tots use BT) then MM1
SH2, WN, (tot once), 3 or 4 HT

if you have enough CP.. Manipulation then SH2, then HS spam (can take Tots) till durability with 2 steps left.

if not enough CP is left for manipulation finish the synth. again depends on how much CP is left

SH GS Byregot

end with CS2.

[aerolol]

My rotation that has worked very well for my first 2 Lucis:

(ToT whenever possible)
CZ, IQ, SH2, Hasty Touches until @ 10 durability.

If SH2 still has 2 stacks (meaning you didnt get any ToT proc), Master Mend 1 + Hasty, then refresh SH2. (ToT whenever possible)
Otherwise if SH2 has only 1 stack (meaning you got one ToT proc during SH2), Manipulation then refresh SH2. (ToT whenever possible)
Refresh CZ as needed.
Hasty Touches until @ 10 durability.

Repeat the above "if" and do hasty till 10 dura. Repeat it again. And yet another time if possible (watch your CP)

You should be at 8-11 stacks of IQ now.

Do one last manipulation, SH1 + GS + Ing2 + (Inno if you have enough CP) + Byregot.
Careful Synth x3 to finish the synth at around 90% HQ chance (around 100% if you had CP for innovation at 10+ stacks of IQ) if you started with a few HQ mats. 80% HQ chance if you only used NQ mats and didnt have CP for Innovation.

[dspguy]

In another thread, not sure if it was this one or another one, I made my points about what I don't like about the "take every ToT and use MM1" method mentioned above.

I gave it another try last night. I finished up 3 more lucis tools. I've done my first 3 with "my method" which involves 2 WN2 and "needs" only 1 ToT anywhere in the first 10 steps. The other 3 lucis tools, I've tried this other method. The HQ rate that I've seen favors the 2 WN2 method a little bit, but that is small sample space.

My main issue with the MM1/ToT method is that when it fails, it fails hard. Very hard. And those are just throwaway synths at that point. Thankfully we get back some of the ingredients. When the WN2 method "fails hard" - I still wind up with a better chance of that HQ than with the MM1/ToT method. But with that said, the only losses for both methods are clusters and easily replaceable items. It doesn't really matter which way you do it.

However, during one of my synths using the MM1/ToT method, I managed a 64 step synth. So it may fail hard, but when goods are in your favor, they are really in your favor.
http://tinypic.com/r/dcacxx/8

[giantslayer]

In a world without ToT, WN2 would be the best skill to use on these. Out of your 8 steps, you can not use a touch on one of them and still get your full 4 steps. Unfortunately, that is already used up by refreshing SH2. If just one good condition pops up in those 8 steps, you are faced with two options:
1. Take ToT and now you have paid 98cp for 3 steps. (32.7cp per step)
2. Ignore ToT at an opportunity cost of 20cp, effectively bringing the cost up to 118cp. (29.5cp per step)

MM1 is 30.7 per step. Manip is 29.3 per step. Discounting opportunity costs of ToT, WN2 is 24.5.

Mathematically speaking WN2 is the best of no good conditions proc. If you take a ToT proc, it falls behind MM1. If you ignore 1 ToT, then you break even with Manipulation. If a second or third good proc enters the picture, things look worse for WN2. Also, because hitting 7 will leave you at 5 durability, a second use of WN2 will get you one less step and is not worth using compared to other skills.

[dspguy]

Mathematically speaking WN2 is the best of no good conditions proc. If you take a ToT proc, it falls behind MM1. ... WN2 is 29.5cp per step

No. WN2 is 14 per step. You get 7 effectual steps with SH2, WN2, SH2. 98CP/7 = 14CP per step.

And your "opportunity cost" is what you think it is worth. You need to use ToT to keep your synth alive. Like I said in my post, I only need 1 ToT for the whole synth. If I get a good during a non-critical part of the synth, of course ToT it. But during the WN2 sequence, those other "goods" that you see as 20CP thrown away, I see it as a bonus if HT lands.

I get the power of the MM1/Manipulation/ToT method vs the WN2 method. Speaking as someone that has done 160 HQ worth of lucis token items (80 with each method), I'm not overly impressed. I need the RNG to land my HT and give me lots of goods. And when you don't get more than a few goods, you wind up with not enough IQ stacks to have a fighting chance on the HQ. WN2 method, I know how many touches I'm going to get. If I manage to get lucky with ToT during non-critical phases, I can convert those into BT for a guaranteed IQ stack.

Besides, the synths take less time with WN2. Less steps, less time. Different strokes for different folks.

[StouterTaru]

I don't understand how you could make use of 2x WNII in a 40 durability synth. If you keep SHII up for all the touches, you can only gain 35 durability (4 steps) the first use. This leaves you at 5 durability.

You need to use something (let's say MMI) to get you back up to 35 durability, at which point the 2nd WNII will at best gain you 30 durability, for a higher cost than another MMI.

Is there something I'm missing here?

[dspguy]

If you keep SHII up for all the touches, you can only gain 35 durability (4 steps) the first use. This leaves you at 5 durability. Is there something I'm missing here?

SH2 WN2 SH2, leaves at 5 durability. 7 steps. 7 actions. Not 4.

2nd WN2 has 7 actions: 4 touches, 1 BB, 2 progress actions (to bait good/excellent).

2 WN2, 14 actions.

And obviously there is a Manipulation or something in between.

[StouterTaru]

7 actions, but use of 35 durability for those 7 actions, gain of 35 durability, gain of 4 actions.

Then you use mani or MMI, and you're at 35 durability, which is 4 possible actions. You use another WNII, to make that 7 actions, gain of 3.

You could have used a 2nd MMI instead for the same gain and less CP cost, plus been able to buff your BB.

[dspguy]

7 actions, but use of 35 durability for those 7 actions, gain of 35 durability, gain of 4 actions.

Then you use mani or MMI, and you're at 35 durability, which is 4 possible actions. You use another WNII, to make that 7 actions, gain of 3.

You could have used a 2nd MMI instead for the same gain and less CP cost, plus been able to buff your BB.

It's like we are speaking different languages. I talk about spending durability, you talk about gaining it.

And BB is buffed with GS. You wind up with 5 durability on the last step, just as good. I figured that was a given.


All I'm trying to say is... there is more than one way to do these synths. The MM1/ToT way fails hard when it does fail to yield procs for ToT and you wind up with very low HQ chance. If you get lots and lots of goods and your HT land, of course it will HQ. I like the 2 WN2 method since I don't need RNG to land on "Good" to succeed. I take one if I need it. If I get enough during non-critical parts, I can covert them into 100% touches. And if RNG does land on Good and I use a touch on it, I get the 50% bonus on that step. And as everyone knows, HQ chance is exponential as your reach 4980. Those goods that I'm "passing up" get converted into a quality bonus. That quality bonus is not minor. Not every GS/BB = 100%. And when it doesn't, that quality bonus becomes key.