Guess that Dark Knight Job Story Rival(s)!

[Amelia_Pond_Behemoth]

I'm hoping for this guy...



You too, can crush men's skulls between thighs.

Just because DRK is bad guy doesn't mean you're a bad guy.

[Shougun]

Maybe but Ishgard religion is more towards Dragons and stuff. Most likely things may go towards Ul'dah more due to the DK rivals, the Paladins, being there. At best I think they may slap in some Paladin NPCs with one of them being a main NPC for the DK Job Story who has a goal to find another Dark Knight that may be our Job rival. Along with a bunch of scenes that put into question each character's beliefs and actions.

Paladins also are more duty bound than holy, though that may change in the expansion. Would be kind of interesting if in the Paladin line you can have a different perspective of the other side, a compelling argument on why the other side is bad and you're not (for both sides). Sort of a Grey Warden from Dragon Age thing lol.

For the Ul'dah political side though, how would the Paladins and Dark Knights differ in position? I can't imagine a side for good with little need for overhead structure would take part on the bad side of Ul'dah, which would mean honor bound Paladins would be the bad ones lol. I suppose that fits Paladins, and could fit in with their own personal evolution and perspective on how they got to that point (talking about both having their own vision to the story) - also would give Paladins the opportunity to shift into a more holy route away from serving royalty. Although I think on the Japanese side they're just called knights, and it is just by the virtue of the English translation and vision that I (maybe we) want to see them be "holy".

Edit: I see your edit, yeah I suppose Paladins (or a segment) being a bit bad could be fun, they do have a high structure reliance and service to royalty - but only temporarily don't hurt my order for too long! lol

Also to add the the demon thing-

I was thinking along the lines that Dark Knights are a group of low structure knights upholding a code not necessarily morally grey but with a respect to relativism and life and death cycle particularly. The ceremony of first initiation for Dark Knights would be some enormous bloody and hopeless task like FFXI (not morally pointless though, and with a particular weapon), these weapons are just general weapons part of the ritual to be in the mindset.

As you go through the quest and pick up abilities the trainers notice something prodigious with your black magic, not being quite Thaumaturge like and interestingly effective. After a while the trainers begin to treat you suspiciously and a kind fellow apprentice helps you along, later they have an emergent task that reveals the leaders have been into a dark magic that has corrupted their mind- you see a cutscene that clearly condemns them.

This leads to you fighting all the trainers at once, and winning - void effects around your character and or screen. After finishing them off with sorrow but purpose that they have taught you, the demon in the sword is revealed and the dark deed's consequences introduced, this being a non planned occurrence (that normally Dark Knights are mildly trained in magic and fighting). I'd rather it not lead to a cheesy redemption but through some means you break a "portion" of the dark seal placed onto you when you bathed the demon you wielded in allied blood.

Shattering the stone you stop seeing many of the visions the demon wanted you to see*, the fellow appears to be a voidraga (or other, like imp) which served the demon and so weak serves you as a minor messenger and servant of the void - but you're still tainted. By tempering your will and delving into the dark you can wield a sort of living void magic not generally use-able (magic being part of the demon and void). *Shadows shimmering, slight shifts on screen, whispers occasionally, happening only a few times during beginning of story, while still unlocking Dark Knight proper but known cursed happening more often and once cleansed happening only very rarely and never in a way that could distract from game content (basically something you might notice once every few hours if you were looking for it and not distracted).

Its not really a big twist, I just thought it would be fun to be the bad guy, to have a magic you may not necessarily wanted to have, and to be the head of the job class in a way that no one else had been (other dark knights yes, but only minor thaumaturge). Future quests could involve digging into the shard, opening your own void, hunting down demons (literal and figurative) that plague eorzeans, and using your wits against demons that'd if not careful enslave you - all with your catty wussy demon servant.

[EdwinLi]

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Well on Politic side the Paladin must follow their Code and Law which, somewhere in their Order's rule, they can not act unless there is solid proof the person has done wrong and even if they have the proof, were it to disappear, they can not act unless they can show the proof. They are also bound to follow their higher ups so, for example, if a town of innocent people are about to be attacked and their higher ups see it as a necesary sacrifice the Paladin of Ul'dah must follow their higher up order. Of course not all Paladins follow this think which is shown through the Paladin Job Storyline but it is mentioned a good amount do in the Paladin storyline which is how the Paladin Order was manipulated into handing over Oathkeeper (along with some help from politically corrupt members of the Paladin order) to the enemy and why one of our Paladin Job Trainer is no longer part of the Paladin Order.

Don't really know how a Dark Knight can play into a Ul'dah involved Job Story due to not knowing what type of Dark Knight SE is going for in FF14 but Dark Knight may serve as the one that aim to help the people where the Paladin Order can not due to their lmits.

FF series does have the lore of DK about sometimes helping the people where the most would not do so but also can be evil for taking advantage of those people as well.

It is kind of hard to place dark knight into a story yet due to the many incarnations of what is a Dark Knight.

[Calypsx]

I never really felt Dark Knights were evil. In fact, I feel they sometimes are incredibly far from that. They literally sacrifice every fiber of their being, both physically and mentally in order to protect their allies. Some don't even survive the intense training and lose their minds in the process.

The playable Dark Knights live in a world of self loathing all for the sake of others. It's an incredibly sad and tragic job and that's what intrigues me the most about it.

I'm actually hoping it's not just a rivalry story but also one of recovery. Perhaps we help teach another DRK that their powers can be used for good or we save them from losing themselves to the darkness.

I'm really looking forward to what the developers come up with.

[Reokudo]

Dark powers = Dark Lord/Evil person is just too generic for me.

I prefer a story that makes people question what they know and if what they know is a truth or fantasy.

A Story that makes people question if a person is truely evil or if the so called "Good Guy" the evil one due to their Blind actions about being called Heroes of the Light.

Evil is subjective. In that game's case, the Dark Lord was essentially... The good guy by not letting the reign of absent gods continue. Dark Knight's story will probably be start out as a path of revenge, redemption or something along those lines. Maybe you'll make a NPC friend in the story, they die a horrible death at the hands of <insert story villain here> etc etc.

[MageBlack]

While it is common to place DK in a view of something evil (inner darkness and all) there are other times when Dark Knights are placed as something good but it is just their beliefs that make people think other wise.

For example, Good Dark Knights often are not bound by gods, religion, laws, kings, queens, and kingdoms because evil people can use those as means to cause harm or escape from their crimes.

While common to see this as evil, the unbound limit they have gives them more open to act against evil that would use the same system designed to bring good. It also allows them to act faster since not being bound by these things allows them to not be hold back by people of High ranks within these areas.

I wasnt thinking really along the lines of straight out "evil" but more like how there is the warrior of light, maybe face off against a mirrior image of yourself that is the warrior of dark. Struggling with inner turmoil and haunted by ghosts from 1.0 until you finally break free into the more powerful "pure" Dark Knight that you are talking about.

Also, isnt a good Dark Knight a Paladin?

And I agree, Good or Evil are subjective. I'm sure the Jihadists believe they are doing the greatest good for their people and the rest of humanity, you cant convince someone to do those kinds of things just for the sake of evil, the greatest evil comes from the best of intentions.

[EdwinLi]

And I agree, Good or Evil are subjective. I'm sure the Jihadists believe they are doing the greatest good for their people and the rest of humanity, you cant convince someone to do those kinds of things just for the sake of evil, the greatest evil comes from the best of intentions.

No this is a level of difference between a Good Dark Knight and a Paladin.

While both follow their own Code it is their Code that separates them even if both are good.

Like I said before Paladins tend to follow more towards the law of Good path and often can't perform much actions unless proven guilty or is a last resort. Paladins often must expose Evil for what it is before actions are taken but this path is what leads Paladins to be seen as Champions of the Just and allows them to rally others to support them for exposing the Evil. Of course the Evil will either die, sent to prison, or escape justice by some means.

A Good Dark Knight often follow a necessary evil path to perform good deeds which is why they often are not bound by kingdoms, laws, or religion. Of course this neceassy evil path they follow often leads them to killing evil people that have pretended to be Good People so they can manipulate others which leaves them with the burden of having to know how much evil this person does while people around the Dark Knight think they killed a Good person.

However, this is only one incarnation of a Dark Knight and SE has used different ones in FF games and related FF games like Bravely Default.

[Ashrak]

A Good Dark Knight often follow a necessary evil action to perform good deeds which is why they often are not bound by kingdoms, laws, or religion. Of course this neceassy evil path they follow often leads them to killing evil people that have pretended to be Good People so they can manipulate others which leaves them with the burden of having to know how much evil this person does while people around the Dark Knight think they killed a Good person.

I think you are aiming to persons such as the Punisher from when we use again the comic pop culture as a comparison.

[MageBlack]

-Snip-

Oh for sure! I wasnt disagreeing with you. The part you quoted was more of a reference to how we tend to label good or evil and a response to Reokudo, not how you or I expect the dark knight to work. I think it will tap into the dark aether and the class wont be any more "evil" than the Thaumaturge/Black Mage.

@Ashrak:
I thought more like Spawn or Guts from Sword of the Berserker.

[EdwinLi]

I think you are aiming to persons such as the Punisher from when we use again the comic pop culture as a comparison.

If you wish to put it that ways...

Like I said the many incarnations of Dark Knight in FF series (and games related to it in some way) has left different incarnations of Dark Knight from...

- A Kingdoms personal Executioner or Eilte Soldier (Cecil FF4, Leon FF2, and Alternis from BD)

- Defying Dark Knight (like Cecil when he did not follow the order to kill everyone in the village in the beginning of FF4)

- Wandering Dark Knight (for different reasons like the Dark Knight in Crystal Chronicles)

- Crazy Evil Dark Knight (basically turning evil and crazy from Darkness)

They can go many ways with DK Storyline and they may use different incarnations of Dark Knight for DK Job Story as another possible outcome.

Oh for sure! I wasnt disagreeing with you. The part you quoted was more of a reference to how we tend to label good or evil and a response to Reokudo, not how you or I expect the dark knight to work. I think it will tap into the dark aether and the class wont be any more "evil" than the Thaumaturge/Black Mage.

@Ashrak:
I thought more like Spawn or Guts from Sword of the Berserker.

ya I heard rumors that FF14 Dark Knight is based on the characters of the manga series Berserk. Of course that manga is full of Dark Knights

As for how DK works, I'm going for the Ancient Forgotten Forbidden Magic thing.