The Hunt Public Shaming Needs to end

[Kaze3434]

It is not a witch hunt when you get the corpse of the early puller lying there on the ground. Funny thing is to date I've not had to black list anyone at hunts. snip

in an earlier post you literally said "chase them off the server". thats the part where you went too far and it becomes harassment. how you dont see that saying in shout "hey, this person early pulled, everyone blacklist,kick from ls and make sure they are unable to hunt" is against the very rules you agree to while playing this game just shows how blind to some things you are.
and just to throw this out there, you say to black list the early puller. what if the "puller" was a fresh player that had no idea what was going on? you have now stunted any kind of growth that this person could have done on the server if all the people at that hunt bl him. good job.

[NyarukoW]

in an earlier post you literally said "chase them off the server". ...what if the "puller" was a fresh player that had no idea what was going on? ..
..

You obviously don't do very good job of reading. See:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...00#post2740800

There is no reason to trust any random shouts. The early puller usually takes at least 3 to 5 pulls before people really catch on. Usually we discuss among ourselves who it might be first and then assign people to watch for them. And if it is some low level with sprout on their heads, we usually tell them to stay away so they do not die. It is only after we see the early puller do this over and over then we let everyone know, and better yet if we can get their dead corpse on the ground for confirmation it is even better. You don't need the insults and cussing that can get everyone else in trouble, you just need to correctly identify the troublemaker.

Or this:

It is not a witch hunt when you get the corpse of the early puller lying there on the ground. Funny thing is to date I've not had to black list anyone at hunts. Usually when everyone see their dead corpse the early pulling troll is usually too ashamed to show their face around the hunts. But if they insist and try it on subsequent elites, it is not witch hunt for everyone to black list the troll early puller nor is it incitement to have everyone on multiple LS blacklist them and remove them from the LS. It is our only power to defend the large number of player from their trolling for lulz.

And as for the FC that earned its terrible rep, they were chased off the server in the sense that they generated so much ill will that no one in their right mind would associate with them so they had to leave on their own volition. That is about as much chasing as we can do. The trolls delight in all the name calling, cussing, and other nonsense that get nowhere and they can use to get others in trouble. In any case, when the rest of the players are being abused by the trolls, the vast majority of us who are victims of their antics are not obligated to suffer more from them. We can organize and show solidarity by identifying and blacklisting them.

BTW only idiots would blacklist based on some random shouts or an accidental face pull. You want to save your 200 slots for the gil sellers and spammers. The first shout is an alert to the group to watch someone carefully. And if you see them early pulling again and again at every elite following that you know what their game is and that they are trolling everyone. This is not rocket science or all that hard to see. So on the next pull we watch the troll pull and get themselves killed and we will not res them and we got positive identification.

[Lycelle]

37 Pages and we're still at this?

[NyarukoW]

37 Pages and we're still at this?

Well people are stubborn and believe they have to the right troll everyone else on the server without consequence. That is NOT going to happen. Calling it "naming and shaming" doesn't change the fact that other players have the right to call them out for their bad behavior and blacklist them if they have to, and the trolls should be scared of the organized way that people working together can do counter the trolls disruptive and detrimental antics.

[Lycelle]

Well people are stubborn and believe they have to the right troll everyone else on the server without consequence. That is NOT going to happen. Calling it "naming and shaming" doesn't change the fact that other players have the right to call them out for their bad behavior and blacklist them if they have to, and the trolls should be scared of the organized way that people working together can do counter the trolls disruptive and detrimental antics.

We've been saying th---No. I'm done. Nope. Ya'll have fun with this.

[RichardButte]

37 Pages and we're still at this?

I think we should just all agree on the following points:

-If the people who were out searching for hunt mobs (ie the people maing hunts happen) don't make it to the mob in time when it gets discovered elsewhere, it was pulled early, thus discouraging them from going out to look and instead encouraging aetheryte camping.

-There is no rule against early pulling, just as there is no rule against excluding players who pull early from parties. No one "HAS" to play with anyone else in this game and if you find their behavior objectionable you are free to exclude them.

-Scaling mob HP would solve the issue (as it as solved it in other MMOs).

[Snugglebutt]

I think we should just all agree on the following points:

-If the people who were out searching for hunt mobs (ie the people maing hunts happen) don't make it to the mob in time when it gets discovered elsewhere, it was pulled early, thus discouraging them from going out to look and instead encouraging aetheryte camping.

-There is no rule against early pulling, just as there is no rule against excluding players who pull early from parties. No one "HAS" to play with anyone else in this game and if you find their behavior objectionable you are free to exclude them.

-Scaling mob HP would solve the issue (as it as solved it in other MMOs).

No I do not and cannot agree on the first two parts of your post. I stated why in post #366. Firstly just because group/person A never made it to the mob before pulled by group B or person B does not mean was pulled early. Again you cannot pull 'early' unless a predetermined time limit is both present and accepted by all players of which I pointed out why in my previous post and coming to a consensus after the pull is not in any way at all valid because such consensus was not reached by every single person present during and after as to what that predetermined time limit was prior to pulling in the first place.

So I very much disagree with your first part, on your second part...the whole thread is about 'how' people are going about excluding people. Should you be allowed to blacklist someone who did something you do not like? Sure. Should you spread vindictive accusations on public chat across entire zones or the entire server about that person which publicly shames them, creates harassment and abuse towards them? No. It is fine to inform people someone pulled so that people know the fight has begun, it not however alright to claim they pulled 'early' or tell people vindictive and negative ways to harass and punish them using mob rule when 'early' is subjective.

As I stated above there is a big difference between saying "someone pulled" and saying "someone pulled early", "someone pulled early so blacklist them", "someone pulled early so do not resurrect them" which in all three latter examples it is not only subjective to claim it was early in the first place but also has negative and accusatory connotations attached and does lead to harassment. The first one does not imply the puller did anything wrong, the other three are done for the sole purpose of harassing that person with the accusatory and negative connotation added by saying they pulled "early". I gave an example in post #366 as why the last three should not be done.

The last part of your comment about HP increase I have no major problem with trying but it could be open to abuse and if that is the case then a better solution needs to come about.

[RichardButte]

Again you cannot pull 'early' unless a predetermined time limit is both present and accepted by all players of which I pointed out why in my previous post and coming to a consensus after the pull is not in any way at all valid because such consensus was not reached by every single person present during and after as to what that predetermined time limit was prior to pulling in the first place.

I think that, if the players who are out there searching for the mobs don't make it in time, the pull was too early.

And this has a cumulative negative effect because it will encourage these players to aetheryte camp.

And as someone mentioned in this thread, it's entirely possible for a hunt mob to spawn and NO ONE finds it for 20+ minutes because everyone aetheryte camps because no one wants to miss it.

You know how everyone who pulls early does so because they don't want to waste time? Yeah, now they're REALLY wasting time...

[Kosmos992k]

I think that, if the players who are out there searching for the mobs don't make it in time, the pull was too early.

How does the person pulling know if everyone that was actively hunting in the zone for that mark is already there or not?

The point Snugglebutt was making is that the definition of 'early' is entirely subjective. Or as Douglas Adams put it, "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." The whole discussion revolving around the word "early" is pointless since there is no universal frame of reference. What is early to you, could be perfectly on time for someone else, long over due to yet another, and in the middle of a bite of sandwich for that bloke playing with a controller in one hand and his lunch in the other. Your opinion that something is early, is entirely accurate - for you. But not for everyone.

So, how does the person pulling the mark know that not only are all the active hunters in the zone, regardless of LS membership, present for the pull, but also that they are all ready to pull? Obviously, they can't know any of this at all, all they can know is whether their own team is ready to go. So, once they are ready, why should they wait? How long should they wait? How do they know when to stop waiting? Is Nyaruko going to 'port in to give permission to pull? These and many other fascinating questions will go unanswered because while I was asking them in LS chat, someone pulled the mark, and now I get no credit. Kill the heretic!

Because this idea of a "early" pull is a social construct, it's extremely subjective and context sensitive. In effect, it's really only relevant within a specific subgroup. For instance, let's say you have two hunting LS, and players from both find an S mark and announce it on their respective LS. There are no players who are members of both, so neither LS is aware that the other has already announced the mark. After a couple of minutes the active members of LS 'A' have all arrived and confirmed that they are ready, and so tank 'A' pulls the mark. LS 'B' was a little slow getting there, and only a few of their members had arrived yet. The news goes up in their LS that the mark has been pulled. Suddenly the shout channel errupts with outrage as players from LS 'B' teleport into the area and realize the mark is almost down. Someone shouts that tank 'A' pulled early. Kill the heretic!

Did tank 'A' pull early? Obviously it depends entirely on which Linkshell you are a member of. In other words, it's completely subjective. There is no objective definition of an "early pull"...

P.S. I'll throw in an additional Douglas Adams quote just for fun, since it might be applicable to the way that some posters (not you) on the SE forum behave.... "I don't believe it. Prove it to me and I still won't believe it."

[Izsha]

37 Pages and we're still at this?

yup. Because people keep getting hung up on the idea that the op and others are trying to silence free speech or something, even though it's been restated 1000 times that a simple statement of fact is not harrasment. What the op, me, and others are trying to point out is that "cloudxxxxsephiroth pulled" "please don't pull so quickly, thanks!" And such are not a big deal an no one is suggesting that you are not free to blacklist whoever you want for whatever reason.

We want the witch hunting, insulting, crybaby shouts to lay off and point out that THOSE actions are completely reportable because it is harassment. Wishing cancer on a fast puller is not justice. It's harrassment. Shouting in every zone you wander through about what a terrible person so and so is, is not safekeeping the hunt community. It's harrassment. Putting together online databases of people to blacklist and telling wveryone on the server to also blacklist those people isnt vigilante justice. Its harrassment. THOSE are the types of things that need to stop. If you and your ls have some civil discussion carefully identifying the pullers and deciding not to raise them, or kick them from your shell. Great. Good for you. Those aren't the issues people are saying are a problem.

everytime anyone says people perform witch hunts and harrassment the same few people say "no we dont, we just pass information in a civil manner to out ls" or some such. Great, we're not talking about YOU then. We're talking about the people who insult, defame, mistreat and encourage everyone on the server to also insult and mistreat people.

But apparently that's an impossible distinction for the official forums.