The Hunt Public Shaming Needs to end

[NyarukoW]

Going all legalese...

.... So what right do you have to accuse them if you do not have any documented proof of them doing the act?

Forum lawyers are so funny. Everyone hold your fire and don't res <t>. Boom! Is his dead corpse on the ground for an early pull not solid evidence? LOL. Heck we can all get screenshots saved to disk too of it. Trophies for when you bag a early pulling troll.

[Lycelle]

Forum lawyers are so funny. Everyone hold your fire and don't res <playerX>. Boom! Is his dead corpse on the ground for an early pull not solid evidence? LOL. Heck we can all get screenshots saved to disk too of it. Trophies for when you bag a early pulling troll.

Shouting it once is fine. To let people be aware of the person. But going out of your way to ruin the rest of their game experience is not. Which is what you are trying to defend. In this case you are now harassing. Because you are taking the steps to ensure that they DO NOT get into any parties of any sort.

-Posted from the SE ToS-

Harassment
Our Definition of Harassment
The use of inappropriate and offensive language in general, or against another player is considered harassment in FINAL FANTASY XIV and is strictly prohibited. Using offensive language for character and retainer name, or spreading the inappropriate words in the character’s first and last names is also considered harassment. All claims of harassment are evaluated on a case by case basis and the action taken can be varied based upon the situation at that time. If harassment is found, the account penalty will be issued to all players who involve in the harassment.

•The use of language that is generally considered unacceptable in a public venue
•Any language that is purposely meant to harm or harass a third party
•Any language that promotes the discrimination of any race, nationality, religion, sexual orientation or gender

There may be inappropriate conduct that does not fit into any of the above categories that may be considered harassment and as such would constitute an actionable offense.

In accordance with our privacy and confidentiality policies, the GM will not inform the victim of any disciplinary action that was issued.

Prohibited Activities
Disruptive behavior that negatively affects the experience of others or the service itself is strictly forbidden within FINAL FANTASY XIV. Such activities violate the FINAL FANTASY XIV User Agreement as well as the SQUARE ENIX Account Terms of Use. Players found to be committing prohibited activities within FINAL FANTASY XIV will be penalized by SQUARE ENIX in its sole discretion. The different types of account penalties that can be issued against a service account are further explained in the “Account Penalties” section.

[NyarukoW]

Thank for stating the obvious:
..
Disruptive behavior that negatively affects the experience of others or the service itself is strictly forbidden within FINAL FANTASY XIV.....

And this is what early pullers are doing "Disruptive behavior that negatively affects the experience of others." We are not ruining anyone else experience by avoiding them thru the blacklist. The blacklisting or coordinated blacklisting to protect ourselves from the early pullers harassment can not be harassment. It makes no sense for those of us who are being abused to have to accept them and let them abuse us some more. That would be like telling battered women to back to their abusive boyfriends or husbands.

[Tiggy]

And this is what early pullers are doing "Disruptive behavior that negatively affects the experience of others." We are not ruining anyone else experience by avoiding them thru the blacklist. The blacklisting or coordinated blacklisting to protect ourselves from the early pullers harassment can not be harassment.

I think you've missed the entire point of the message. People mis-identify the person who pulled early all the time. On multiple occasions I've personally seen someone who was low level and clearly wasn't hunting just walk through the mob and aggro it by accident. Then people shouted for 10 minutes to blist the person for pulling earlier despite them having no idea what they even did or any malicious intent behind it. Heck they weren't even trying to hunt at the time. If you shout "Player A just pulled early. Blist him everyone" I have no idea what actually happened outside of your word. From my own experiences I know I can't trust every shout by face value. In the example I gave earlier where the player face pulled not even realizing what they did those shouts to blist that player would absolutely be considered harassment. That's what they are trying to tell you.

TLDR: there is no reason to trust random shouts. They can be lies and potentially are harassment in their own right depending on what actually happened.

[NyarukoW]

...
TLDR: there is no reason to trust random shouts. They can be lies and potentially are harassment in their own right depending on what actually happened.

There is no reason to trust any random shouts. The early puller usually takes at least 3 to 5 pulls before people really catch on. Usually we discuss among ourselves who it might be first and then assign people to watch for them. And if it is some low level with sprout on their heads, we usually tell them to stay away so they do not die. It is only after we see the early puller do this over and over then we let everyone know, and better yet if we can get their dead corpse on the ground for confirmation it is even better. You don't need the insults and cussing that can get everyone else in trouble, you just need to correctly identify the troublemaker.

[Sapphic]

And this is what early pullers are doing "Disruptive behavior that negatively affects the experience of others."

What if your LS decides that needs to wait 5 minutes, and another LS decides 4 minutes is enough? What about those who come 6 minutes after its called and start shouting abuse, saying "early puller *insert random mispelt expletives here*"? What about when half the server turns up and "Disrupts" those on PS3s that cannot then even see the mob? Should you Blist and cal out those who came after too? As they disrupting some players experience.

Also, due to comparing a non-issue to a real life serious issue, consider yourself reported

Not to mention your previous posts are prmoting going against the EULA by harrasing and disrupting others gameplay due to a made up ideal of "early puller". Whereas in fact, if the mob dies, it wasn't early. If there arent enough to kill and they die, then you can consider it early.

Also, as has happened, auto run, look away for 2 mins, and run straight into a hunt mob. Players go all smack happy instead of letting the person go splat or auto run there merry way till it resets. Are you going to harrass, name and shame the one on auto run or the ones who went all red line and attacked? First was an unintential accident, the follow up zerg is fully intentional.

Let's not forget, you accuse someone else of acting like a GM when all they did was quote a GMs reply when this issue was brought up before whilst demanding others should follow your rules otherwise they face harrasment from you and others you tell to do so. So it is you who should relaise you are just a player with no rights to set any form of rules to anyone outside of any LS, party or FC that players join and agree to said rules.

[NyarukoW]

What if .....What about .. What about ... all nonsense hypotheticals...

It is not that complicated when you see the corpse of the early puller on the ground. The identify will be clear to everyone at the hunt.

Also, as has happened, auto run, look away for 2 mins, and run straight into a hunt mob. Players go all smack happy instead of letting the person go splat or auto run there merry way till it resets. Are you going to harrass, name and shame the one on auto run or the ones who went all red line and attacked?

More nonsense hypotheticals. Accidents happen. And beside if folks in the LS are properly disciplined and know to hold until pull time, and accidental pull by something will be automatically reset anyways no one needs to panic, and no name calling or harassment will ever follow. It is the repeat offender that deliberately trolls and disrupts the play of everyone else that will get blacklisted.

Not to mention your previous posts are prmoting going against the EULA by harrasing and disrupting others gameplay ...

Blacklisting trouble makers, be it spammers, gil sellers, or early pullers is certainly not against the EULA. As collective we have the right blacklist those who are harassing the vast majority of players. Identifying them and blacklisting them is not against anything the EULA. None the verbal harassment needs to happen, just simply identify and blacklist.

...The problem is you think players are states. ...
Players are GUESTS. Guests have no authority to make rules in someone else's home.

Players are not states, and I've never said that. The thing is neither is the legal system or the U.S. government top down one-way as you tried to present, nor is the relationship between SE and the playerbase.

And we are not guests and for player that live the game probably would claim this is there home not to mention the houses they have in game. SE does have police powers and is final arbiter but they will adjust rules depending on feedback, just like they instituted the withdrawal penalty, or adjust content difficulty. And even if we are guest, guests do get to make rules, the host should actually try to accomodate the guest as much as possible. You go to a restaurant and you provide the the rule that you are allergic to shellfish related stuff, they will do their best not serve you stuff that sends you the hospital, nor would your friends hosting a dinner party. And people that don't agree to saying grace before dinner don't have to either. Rules are arbitrary unless they are grounded in being solutions to practical matters, and properly negotiated between competing interests.

[Cadmar]

And beside if folks in the LS are properly disciplined and know to hold until pull time

Not everyone is in one LS. Actually... it's ok for someone in NO LS to still do hunts. Some people... many people I would say, just do hunts when they come up and go on about their day.

So whatever discipline YOU have in YOUR LS really does not apply.

Blacklisting trouble makers, be it spammers, gil sellers, or early pullers is certainly not against the EULA. As collective we have the right blacklist those who are harassing the vast majority of players. Identifying them and blacklisting them is not against anything the EULA. None the verbal harassment needs to happen, just simply identify and blacklist.

The actual blacklisting is fine. It is the witch hunt method of inciting people to blacklist them that is the problem. How can you not see this?

[NyarukoW]

.. It is the witch hunt method of inciting people to blacklist them that is the problem. ...

It is not a witch hunt when you get the corpse of the early puller lying there on the ground. Funny thing is to date I've not had to black list anyone at hunts. Usually when everyone see their dead corpse the early pulling troll is usually too ashamed to show their face around the hunts. But if they insist and try it on subsequent elites, it is not witch hunt for everyone to black list the troll early puller nor is it incitement to have everyone on multiple LS blacklist them and remove them from the LS. It is our only power to defend the large number of player from their trolling for lulz.

[Sapphic]

It is not that complicated when you see the corpse of the early puller on the ground. The identify will be clear to everyone at the hunt.

Good picking and choosing there.

You talk a lot without saying anything. Yes we are guests, SE have the right that we agree to terminate anyones account for any or no reasons, also they own all properties and rights, we do not own a single thing. Not even the client as you pay for the licence to use it in a method you agree to with clicking accept to the EULA and/or ToS.

The account and everything in it belongs to SE.

None of those examples where hypothetical, Ive seen em all happen. Even when they have waited 10 mins+ someone comes later and rages.