Guess that Dark Knight Job Story Rival(s)!

[Shougun]

It's quite obviously going to be this guy.

How I would give for a praise the sun emote \o/. I've done all the covenants to completion (1&2), but I really have a thing for the co-op covenants.

If only I could be so grossly incandescent...

I feel so many Soul brothers and sisters in this thread XD.

I hope the rival breaks the mold somehow whether maybe we find out they were actually the good "guy" (and we killed them), or some sort of twist. Or with FFXI there was feeding the sword and maybe here--

The rival and and quest progenitor ends up being a unique void demon in the form of (or sealed within) a sword. Through the quest, maybe early on after feeding it, it breaks into a shard that we can use like a soul gem.

[EdwinLi]

I feel so many Soul brothers and sisters in this thread XD.

I hope the rival breaks the mold somehow whether maybe we find out they were actually the good "guy" (and we killed them), or some sort of twist like with FFXI there was feeding the sword and maybe here--

The rival and and quest progenitor ends up being a unique void demon in the form of (or sealed within) a sword. Through the quest, maybe early on after feeding it, it breaks into a shard that we can use like a soul gem.

A good plot twist brings about opportunity but only if it is done right though I would prefer something else than a generic "reveal the main antagonist was a Demon" plot

Always enjoy a story that makes people question what they know.

I wonder if it will be your inner darkness.

#deep

While it is common to place DK in a view of something evil (inner darkness and all) there are other times when Dark Knights are placed as something good but it is just their beliefs that make people think other wise.

For example, Good Dark Knights often are not bound by gods, religion, laws, kings, queens, and kingdoms because evil people can use those as means to cause harm or escape from their crimes.

While common to see this as evil, the unbound limit they have gives them more open to act against evil that would use the same system designed to bring good. It also allows them to act faster since not being bound by these things allows them to not be hold back by people of High ranks within these areas.

[Shougun]

A good plot twist brings about opportunity but only if it is done right though I would prefer something else than a generic "reveal the main antagonist was a Demon" plot

Always enjoy a story that makes people question what they know and Dark Knight does open that option due to what types of Dark Knights can exists.

While it is common to place DK in a view of something evil there are other times when Dark Knights are placed as something good but it is just their beliefs that make people think other wise.

For example, Good Dark Knights often are not bound by gods, religion, laws, kings, queens, and kingdoms because evil people can use those as means to cause harm or escape from their crimes.

While common to see this as evil, the unbound limit they have gives them more open to act against evil that would use the same system designed to bring good.

Edited my post a little, noticed it wasn't quite clear about plot twist and running right into a secondary idea I had lol - also the demon would not necessarily be the antagonist (since it would be the shard you were using). But- Yes, I like your evaluation of the lack of structure being a form of good that many would see as evil and lacking of a system they hold as right but may have been or be corrupted already. It would be nice if the really identify what makes Dark Knight (Dark) but yet also good, and perhaps contrast that with the Paladin where possible.

I know this is an international game that is trying to get a lot of attention but at your mention of religion I think of SE (soft) and Xenogears.. Wonder if they could work something in with the holy see and dark knights.

[EdwinLi]

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Maybe but Ishgard religion is more towards Dragons and stuff. Most likely things may go towards Ul'dah more due to the DK rivals, the Paladins, being there. At best I think they may slap in some Paladin NPCs with one of them being a main NPC for the DK Job Story who has a goal to find another Dark Knight that may be our Job rival. Along with a bunch of scenes that put into question each character's beliefs and actions.

Ul'dah current has so far shown many lore and story events that could be used in some way for a Dark Knight Job Storyline. While Main Scenario focused more about the refugees vs the Ul'dah citizens, Ul'dah's culture and system can serve as a possible subject for DK Job Story due to corruption within the government and Paladin Order, how the society is controlled by the rich while the poor suffer, and etc.

[MageBlack]

While it is common to place DK in a view of something evil (inner darkness and all) there are other times when Dark Knights are placed as something good but it is just their beliefs that make people think other wise.

For example, Good Dark Knights often are not bound by gods, religion, laws, kings, queens, and kingdoms because evil people can use those as means to cause harm or escape from their crimes.

While common to see this as evil, the unbound limit they have gives them more open to act against evil that would use the same system designed to bring good. It also allows them to act faster since not being bound by these things allows them to not be hold back by people of High ranks within these areas.

I wasnt thinking really along the lines of straight out "evil" but more like how there is the warrior of light, maybe face off against a mirrior image of yourself that is the warrior of dark. Struggling with inner turmoil and haunted by ghosts from 1.0 until you finally break free into the more powerful "pure" Dark Knight that you are talking about.

Also, isnt a good Dark Knight a Paladin?

And I agree, Good or Evil are subjective. I'm sure the Jihadists believe they are doing the greatest good for their people and the rest of humanity, you cant convince someone to do those kinds of things just for the sake of evil, the greatest evil comes from the best of intentions.

[EdwinLi]

And I agree, Good or Evil are subjective. I'm sure the Jihadists believe they are doing the greatest good for their people and the rest of humanity, you cant convince someone to do those kinds of things just for the sake of evil, the greatest evil comes from the best of intentions.

No this is a level of difference between a Good Dark Knight and a Paladin.

While both follow their own Code it is their Code that separates them even if both are good.

Like I said before Paladins tend to follow more towards the law of Good path and often can't perform much actions unless proven guilty or is a last resort. Paladins often must expose Evil for what it is before actions are taken but this path is what leads Paladins to be seen as Champions of the Just and allows them to rally others to support them for exposing the Evil. Of course the Evil will either die, sent to prison, or escape justice by some means.

A Good Dark Knight often follow a necessary evil path to perform good deeds which is why they often are not bound by kingdoms, laws, or religion. Of course this neceassy evil path they follow often leads them to killing evil people that have pretended to be Good People so they can manipulate others which leaves them with the burden of having to know how much evil this person does while people around the Dark Knight think they killed a Good person.

However, this is only one incarnation of a Dark Knight and SE has used different ones in FF games and related FF games like Bravely Default.

[Ashrak]

A Good Dark Knight often follow a necessary evil action to perform good deeds which is why they often are not bound by kingdoms, laws, or religion. Of course this neceassy evil path they follow often leads them to killing evil people that have pretended to be Good People so they can manipulate others which leaves them with the burden of having to know how much evil this person does while people around the Dark Knight think they killed a Good person.

I think you are aiming to persons such as the Punisher from when we use again the comic pop culture as a comparison.

[EdwinLi]

I think you are aiming to persons such as the Punisher from when we use again the comic pop culture as a comparison.

If you wish to put it that ways...

Like I said the many incarnations of Dark Knight in FF series (and games related to it in some way) has left different incarnations of Dark Knight from...

- A Kingdoms personal Executioner or Eilte Soldier (Cecil FF4, Leon FF2, and Alternis from BD)

- Defying Dark Knight (like Cecil when he did not follow the order to kill everyone in the village in the beginning of FF4)

- Wandering Dark Knight (for different reasons like the Dark Knight in Crystal Chronicles)

- Crazy Evil Dark Knight (basically turning evil and crazy from Darkness)

They can go many ways with DK Storyline and they may use different incarnations of Dark Knight for DK Job Story as another possible outcome.

Oh for sure! I wasnt disagreeing with you. The part you quoted was more of a reference to how we tend to label good or evil and a response to Reokudo, not how you or I expect the dark knight to work. I think it will tap into the dark aether and the class wont be any more "evil" than the Thaumaturge/Black Mage.

@Ashrak:
I thought more like Spawn or Guts from Sword of the Berserker.

ya I heard rumors that FF14 Dark Knight is based on the characters of the manga series Berserk. Of course that manga is full of Dark Knights

As for how DK works, I'm going for the Ancient Forgotten Forbidden Magic thing.

[MageBlack]

-Snip-

Oh for sure! I wasnt disagreeing with you. The part you quoted was more of a reference to how we tend to label good or evil and a response to Reokudo, not how you or I expect the dark knight to work. I think it will tap into the dark aether and the class wont be any more "evil" than the Thaumaturge/Black Mage.

@Ashrak:
I thought more like Spawn or Guts from Sword of the Berserker.

[Shougun]

I wasnt thinking really along the lines of straight out "evil" but more like how there is the warrior of light, maybe face off against a mirrior image of yourself that is the warrior of dark. Struggling with inner turmoil and haunted by ghosts from 1.0 until you finally break free into the more powerful "pure" Dark Knight that you are talking about.

Also, isnt a good Dark Knight a Paladin?

And I agree, Good or Evil are subjective. I'm sure the Jihadists believe they are doing the greatest good for their people and the rest of humanity, you cant convince someone to do those kinds of things just for the sake of evil, the greatest evil comes from the best of intentions.

I think in a number of games they are actually evil, but personally doubt they'll do that in FFXIV since the players would then no longer fit in with everyone else. However, it would be kind of awesome story-line where you shift teams "You're my only hope _____" Says Minifilla, meanwhile in your Dark Knight quest line you're learning terrible power from Ascians and setting her up with the bomb. lol. Still don't think they'd do that but, what a change of pace that'd be XD.

Also for moral relativism fun, just because you may see the Jihadists actions as bad - it would not empower your opinion any further than their's if only except in group think power where a system generally bound to popular opinion would vote upon the morality. So was it really a great evil of good intentions or a great good of good intentions (not that I personally see it is good of course, awful, but the fear of what moral relativism means is probably what turns a lot of people to forced structures)? Can you imagine if we had to start every sentence with "in my world view" :P. Although I try to "imo" a lot in the forums because it seems people when they disagree will try at anything to tear your personal character down.

I mean I don't mind a clash of opinions, but so often it turns into "you like grass, you must be an idiot" when you couldn't have just thought perhaps I have a great appreciation for nature looking good, that it was my opinion on visuals (which are like "blue is a good color"), and think that the quality (I could have proven this one) didn't match the rest of the game or its relative competition and I just wanted what I thought looked good and with a consistent visual narrative (there was a missing consistency, the idea that consistency is better of course is an opinion too though). Again, I think their 2.0 efforts were amazing and haven't even thought once to ask for a "fix".