The Hunt Public Shaming Needs to end

[LunaHoshino]

The fact of the matter is that sometimes you're not going to make it to a hunt in time. It happens. It can happen even when you're in the same zone if it's a large zone like Western Thanalan (if you're in Hammerlea, there is no way you're going to be able to make it all the way up to the Castrum in time).

And it's not a big deal. I have a slow-loading computer that means I miss a lot of hunts if I'm not in the zone looking for them. Do I blame other people for not waiting on me? No. If I miss it, I miss it. If I want to hunt seriously, then I'll be in the zone looking for the mark. Interestingly enough, whenever I do that, I make it there in time almost every single time.

[Welsper59]

Why do you think it's weird when it's completely possible and actually quite easy? 1 tank or Titan in your party and you'll get full credit. I routinely get full A-rank credit solo as a summoner.

Either lying or doing them during times when the server is at low pop. If you can get full credit on an A rank that dies in about 10-15sec while solo, even as a tank or SMN, you're doing something that no one else can.

I know Lalas are greedy in game, but you can stop RPing any time now.... :P

Gotta agree with you on this one from what Lycelle said.

I don't ever announce hunts. Like, at all. I don't care about early pullers since I'm an 11 Player. People camped the hell out of NMs back in 11 and if you told them to wait while you get there they'd tell you to piss off and kill it. Which is why I find it funny that the player base in 14 can't handle the way hunts function, they damn sure wouldn't be able to handle it in 11 where lottery spawns existed and 3-5 day spawn windows were a thing. That's how I am unfortunately. If I see a hunt mob I will switch to Summoner and solo it on Titan Egi. If you show up and help? Good for you. Hunts are not meant to be shared publicly, like at all. It defeats the purpose of "The hunt." You are to go out with a small group and are to take the mob down for yourselves, not the entire server. Facepullers don't bother me because they end up dying and we just leave them on the floor anyways.

In FFXI, there was no shared credit due to inability to attack other players' targets and credit/drops only went to the people that claimed. In this game, the claim is shared regardless of who hit it first, meaning it is indeed intended to be shared with others if people choose to do so. How you choose to share a shareable target is up to the players. The hunt is not a solo/exclusive activity, nor is the general definition of "hunt" exclusive to one individual (or a small collective of people). Why you would think it is is... funny, to say the least. Again, it's your call to take unnecessary efforts to keep a target all hush hush, but you are 100% wrong to think your way is the one and only way The Hunt is to be done. All evidence points to you being wrong in thinking that, afterall.

As a side note, I'm not implying that the zergfest it is now is (and also was) how it's intended to be. Yoshi-P himself repeatedly stated how The Hunt was designed and the intended method of play it was to be used as.

[RichardButte]

Either lying or...

Not sure what to tell you...

With 30-40 groups, I've earned full credit solo with titan LOTS of times.

Sure, 50+ it can get dodgy, but the point I'm trying to make is that 1 tank +1 healer + any number of DPS will get full credit unless one of the aforementioned is playing horrendously.

The fact of the matter is...

Do you not understand that there are people on the high pop servers that pull early just to troll the people who didn't get there in time?

Do you not understand that these people are using GuildWorks, a paid 3rd party program that gives a decisive advantage in finding hunt mobs early?

This isn't just an "Oh well, you can't make every hunt!" issue. It's the fact that players are literally doing this to spite other players...

[Battlewrench]

So many pages spent bickering when the problem is the design itself. Hunts are a poor attempt at content outside of a dungeon. Should all change tune and work together to tell the Devs that this mechanic as a whole doesn't work well with the current system.

[Welsper59]

Not sure what to tell you...

With 30-40 groups, I've earned full credit solo with titan LOTS of times.

Sure, 50+ it can get dodgy, but the point I'm trying to make is that 1 tank +1 healer + any number of DPS will get full credit unless one of the aforementioned is playing horrendously.

Your group mention wasn't what I was referring to. That, I easily agree with you on. It was you mentioning that you routinely get full credit with Titan as a SMN while solo that I was replying about. I find that exceptionally difficult to believe even if the mob were to live for 20 seconds (33% more time than the average during heavy server population hours for most of us). I can see half credit (maybe a little more) as a tank or with Titan, but not full. During the offhours however, I can definitely see it possible.

[RichardButte]

So many pages spent bickering when the problem is the design itself. Hunts are a poor attempt content outside of a dungeon. Should all change tune and work together to tell the Devs that this mechanic as a whole doesn't work well with the current system.

I generally agree, but they're not beyond salvaging.

On WoW's timeless isle, rares gain extra HP for every additional player attacking them, meaning that it'll take roughly the same time for 10 players to kill as 100.

There's no reason FFXIV can't be using the same mechanism...

[LunaHoshino]

Do you not understand that there are people on the high pop servers that pull early just to troll the people who didn't get there in time?

Do you not understand that these people are using GuildWorks, a paid 3rd party program that gives a decisive advantage in finding hunt mobs early?

This isn't just an "Oh well, you can't make every hunt!" issue. It's the fact that players are literally doing this to spite other players...

You're making an awful lot of assumptions there. How do you know all of these things? Do they announce that they are trolling or using Guildworks? Because if not, I don't see how you can be so sure that that's the case.

I'm on a high pop server with a very active hunting LS. Most of the hunts here are found by people who made a hunt party and went out to look for the mark, then announced it to the LS when they found it. I know this because I've been in the hunt parties who were out looking. I'm sure there are some people who do cheat, but I very much doubt it's the majority of them.

[RichardButte]

Your group mention wasn't what I was referring to. That, I easily agree with you on. It was you mentioning that you routinely get full credit with Titan as a SMN while solo that I was replying about. I find that exceptionally difficult to believe even if the mob were to live for 20 seconds (33% more time than the average during heavy server population hours for most of us). During the offhours however, I can definitely see it possible.

Like I said, I've done it many times. I think it helps tremendously if you can use the ultimate attack as it grabs tons of aggro.

[Welsper59]

Like I said, I've done it many times. I think it helps tremendously if you can use the ultimate attack as it grabs tons of aggro.

I've not done it with Titan, but I've attempted credit as a PLD and WAR solo. The game may treat the pet and player combo enmity build differently when it comes to hunt credit, compared to straight up threat building by a single source (like a tank or healer). Maybe I'll give Titan a try sometime to see how it goes. As is that's why, it is pretty much impossible with other jobs to get full credit (solo) at the speed hunt targets die (10-15sec) when the server is at high pop and full of people doing hunts.

[Kosmos992k]

...But the other players in response have every right to blacklist and protect their link shells from trouble makers like you.

Calling me a trouble maker, when you know nothing about me, or how I play? Interesting. Care to throw out any other baseless accusations?

I did not condone a player or players arriving at a S mark (while others are standing by for friends to arrive), and taking it for themselves. I simply stated that it's not against the rules, and the GMs *have* confirmed this.

The GM confirmed that as far as SE and their game is concerned, there is no such things as early pulling, but recognized that players themselves had created this construct of an "early pull". In the same posting, the GM made it clear that any player(s) who attack a mark because they believe they can beat it, is playing the hunt content how it's meant to be played. Further it was clarified with regard to grabbing aggro and resetting a mark, that this practice is in fact in violation of the game's terms since you are interfering with another player's play of the game.

So, I will say it again, as it is true;

There is no such things an an early pull (also confirmed by GM), so if some one wished to try their strength and pulls an S-rank, the others around it have the choice; let the fool die, or join in. Either way it doesn't matter, the point is that there is a target waiting to be attacked, someone has to attack it, and no one is in charge, so no one get's to say "pull now" or "do not pull now".

I am certain you will try to rationalize that someone walking up to a mark and pulling it before others are ready is interfering with another player's play, however in the absence of a claim system, the only 'offense' is a lack of courtesy, especially if the player pulling the mark was not one of those who found it. It was made very clear that a hunt mark in the open that has not yet been engaged is fair game to anyone that wants to have a go, regardless of any informal rules or guidelines the players believe that they have created and can enforce on others.

So, yes, the GMs have confirmed that there is no such thing as an early pull. The fact that GMs are players too, and appreciate the courtesy of those who wait for others before engaging a mark does not in any way affect that statement. What it does do is underline the simple and obvious fact that someone walking up and pulling a hunt mark found by others is behaving in a rude/uncourteous manner. However, that does not in any way fall foul of the games terms of service, in other words (and I am sure we all know this implicitly by now), rude players will not be punished for being rude because it's not an actionable.

I'm sure that folks have been reported for "early pulling", that doesn't make it actionable. If the person pulling the mark goes on to hurl abuse or taunt others over it, that might be actionable, as a GM previously posted, it really comes down to a matter of intent. In the same post I am referring to, it was discussed that yes, it would be possible for a player to play the game within the rule and at the same time be griefing one or more other players. However it was not the one time act of pulling the hunt mark that was the problem, it was the intent and pattern of behavior. Getting at the intent of a player who pulls a mark before others are ready is difficult. You can report that player, and *if* a GM bothers to respond, and approaches the player, it will go something like this;

GM: Why did you pull that S mark while X group was waiting for friends to show up?

If the player was not alone, I imagine their answer will be something like;
Accused Early Puller: Because me and my friends thought we could beat it.

If they were alone, I imagine they will say something like;
Accused Early Puller: I didn't realize they were waiting.
or
Accused Early Puller: I didn't know it was an S, and then everyone joined in.
or
Accused Early Puller: I got too close by accident and when it aggro'd on me, I figured what the hell.

The GM response will be something like;

GM: I see, thank you for your time, enjoy your play.

And that my friend will be the end of the inquiry, at most, the GM might admonish the player for their lack of courtesy, but that's a matter of personal behavior. Unless of course the early puller has said something in chat to incite others about the pull, but that's an entirely different matter, and falls under the category of harassment - which is of course actionable.

Thayos, you're arguing semantics and words with me, your own post confirms everything I said in my original post, except that you are saying that the "early pull" is real, and I stated that there is no such thing. In truth, whether a "pull" was early or not is entirely subjective. There is no universal definition of what constitutes an "early pull" because it's only early if you are not ready for it. So, as I said, there is no such thing as an early pull.

Yes, you can label a "pull" early if someone pulls (by intent or accident) the mark before you or others are ready. That is your personal opinion of the event, it is not an objective fact that the pull was early. As has been pointed out, an S mark can be defeated by a group of 8, if a full party comes along and pulls a mark, before your friends arrive, you'll complain of an early pull. However to the party of 8 that pull and possibly defeat the mark, there was nothing early about it.