Manipulation vs MMII

[StouterTaru]

Because if you've gone a whole Wootz Bhuj synth and only gotten one good condition, don't bother reclaiming, because it'll fail anyway? *sob*

(this happened)

It's all about mass production, make enough mats that you can use all HQ on stuff like the 110 weapons, and spread around the NQ to easier synths. For the rare NQ, slap a few junk materia on it and do a few expert runs to turn it into materia. Loss of materials is always a loss, NQ isn't.

[RiceisNice]

It's all about mass production, make enough mats that you can use all HQ on stuff like the 110 weapons, and spread around the NQ to easier synths. For the rare NQ, slap a few junk materia on it and do a few expert runs to turn it into materia. Loss of materials is always a loss, NQ isn't.

Even if you used HQ materials, if you got only one good condition the entire craft, it ain't happening. And you're making a weapon at this point, where it s HQ or gtfo unless its for glamour (which probably is, 110 weapons have lower weapon damage which is the best stat for most classes).

That being said, it's really based on what cards you're dealt with. If you haven't gotten any TotT procs, the increased CP cost is going to hurt you in the long run that an extra tick of CZ won't save you. Not to mention manipulation will compete with other cross skills when you're BSM and LTW.

If in the golden world where I cap my CP before using my second CZ, I'd just pop a basic touch with SHII active.

[StouterTaru]

Even if you used HQ materials, if you got only one good condition the entire craft, it ain't happening. And you're making a weapon at this point, where it s HQ or gtfo unless its for glamour (which probably is, 110 weapons have lower weapon damage which is the best stat for most classes).

That being said, it's really based on what cards you're dealt with. If you haven't gotten any TotT procs, the increased CP cost is going to hurt you in the long run that an extra tick of CZ won't save you. Not to mention manipulation will compete with other cross skills when you're BSM and LTW.

If in the golden world where I cap my CP before using my second CZ, I'd just pop a basic touch with SHII active.

All HQ mats starts you at ~1500 quality, that's a huge jump. 1 ToT proc is enough to get you a Mani and a MMII, that's 13 tries to land two RS and as many hasties as you can, although it does mean skipping the Innovation at the end. Just landing 8 HT is enough to get you up over 50%. And like I said, spiritbond it if you NQ, or find someone who will.

And like I said above, MMII if SHII wears on 10/20 durability, which it will if you only have 1 ToT proc, either as the first durability gain or the 2nd, so the CP loss would be a moot point.

What extra skill do you have instead of INGII, Reclaim?

[RiceisNice]

...

I've been working with 360~ or so CP up until now, and even then I prefer MMII when I have enough CP to spare it (otherwise, i can do MMII + manip without any ToT procs.

Getting 8 HTs would be enough, yes. However, we're looking at someone that got 1 good condition, that'd at the most would be able to fit MMII and manip for 9 extra steps on top of the 8 starter ones. Put aside 5 steps to finish the craft (assuming he has 453 craftsmanship), you have 12 hasty touches and well... shit can happen. You want to start with all HQ materials when possible, but this isn't the case when you're making the baseline materials like platinum ingot (which can only get 400 starting quality). Assuming worse cases, your highest starting quality would be around 400-600 from the HQ'd 3 star materials.

I take manipulation over ingenuity II. It's still nice to have in the event that you don't have enough CP to spare for MMII and still have enough left over for a BB finisher. But my stance is that it's not something I'd use over MMII when the latter is available.

[dspguy]

Even if you used HQ materials, if you got only one good condition the entire craft, it ain't happening.

For 4-star, my rotation can "finish" with 0 ToT and I get at least a GS+BB at the end. If I'm remembering this right, with no ToT, I wind up with 59CP with 25 durability, worst case scenario. So I can either choose to reclaim or GS+(bait)+BB. Reclaim is 90%. And depending on what my HQ% would if BB lands, 90% on that chance. With 1 ToT, I can either SH1 my BB for 100% chance to land. Or BB/Inn. And those are worst-case scenarios.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

For 4-star, my rotation can "finish" with 0 ToT and I get at least a GS+BB at the end. If I'm remembering this right, with no ToT, I wind up with 59CP with 25 durability, worst case scenario. So I can either choose to reclaim or GS+(bait)+BB. Reclaim is 90%. And depending on what my HQ% would if BB lands, 90% on that chance. With 1 ToT, I can either SH1 my BB for 100% chance to land. Or BB/Inn. And those are worst-case scenarios.

your rotation must also no include Rapid Synth to ensure this guarantee.

At any rate, I can concede Stouter's original response to mine. He would use all HQ Mats. his rotation is clearly built in a way where he will always make sure the snth is completed. By definition, this means he's focusing less on Quality than some of us. In his scenario, that's acceptable, as he stated, he will use NQ stuff on items that are easier to synth, and if he NQ's final product he Spirit Binds and converts.

It's good advice. To a certain extent, I wonder if maybe I should do the same thing. My biggest problem is that I don't have the materials to do such large quantity snthesis as he must be doing to end up ahead. I have been taking advantage of really cheap materials. It feels like people are only buing Terminus putty and Scheelite. . . the other mats of same tier are dirt cheap. The Allagan mats are also expensive on Ultros atm. So i'm buying up all the cheap mats, I'll use em when I need to. *Cough* like crafting my Lucis.

[dspguy]

your rotation must also no include Rapid Synth to ensure this guarantee.

It has RS. There are many points where I can take ToT anyway, but I like the idea of having enough CP to finish the synth regardless of the # of ToT.