PLD Novus: Parry or DET?

[Donjo]

So i get there is a big fuss about if you should take DET or Parry on your second stat. But did I get it right, that primarely Acc should be maxed first?

Yep; you'll never hurt yourself by having Accuracy on your weapon. Having to lower the iLvl of your weapon slot to add accuracy hurts far, far more than any other slot, so it's best to prepare to never have to do that.

[PetiteMalFleur]

I have healed tanks who stack parry and tanks who stack crit/det and how easy they are to heal is entire dependant on their CD rotation; their secondary stats are irrelevant as far as how squishy they are.

For all tank crushing mechanics you pop a CD for anyway. Your healers know when damage is coming and precast that heal anyway. No one ever says "I didn't pop a CD for that Revelation because I have 600 parry." Autoattack damage is laughable in all turns so it isn't worth the dps loss you take giving up crit/det.

[TomCatMew]

First, if parry saves you on the 1-2 ```````````n a Parry in most cases.

I think your opinions are reasonable, but I want to mention my points again.

About that single Flare Breathe.
In 2nd phase. After Bahamut cast Flare Star, he will auto-attack MT twice then immediately Flare breathe. I don't think Paladin can SS themselves before the single Flare Breathe since the 2 times auto-attack will interrupt the cast.
And yes, as long as Sch cast a adlo on you, you don't need to worry about that.
More importantly, I didn't mean Paladin should stack parry for surviving from mechanics. I just want to mention that the parry can help Paladin to minimize the damage.

[TomCatMew]

First, if parry saves you on the 1-2 ```````````n a Parry in most cases.

Yes, it is true that in a perfect run paladin use CDs correctly, and healers do their job best, most damage are negligible. The parry definitely is useless.
However, we are human but not machine. Everything could happen during the fight. More and less, Anyone may mess up in a fight. Yes, you can just wipe it till your group do a perfect run. But who knows that run probably will be your 1st clear.
(Short Story)In my group 1st T13 clear. Ninja died in megaflare in last phase( i think he was too close the ring) . And both healers didn't have swiftcast, Sch was trying to resurrection. After the earthshaker, I got the tempest wing damage, then healers should heal me up before I took the Flare Breathe. For some reasons, healers didn't heal me up in time. Sch gave me lustrate but it was too late. I took the tempest wing damage and I parried an auto-attack. I had 170 HP left, then lustrate healed me up.
If I didn't parry that auto-attack, I would die. And the akh morn would kill the Warrior. Probably we couldn't beat it.
I know it sounds ridiculous and full of rng. But it was my 1st clear.

[TomCatMew]

First, if parry saves you on the 1-2 ```````````n a Parry in most cases.

99% parry doesn't mean you can parry every physical attack.
1% parry doesn't mean you cannot parry any physical attack.

Yes, parry is a poor stat that cannot promise anything.However, I think the parry's benefit is invisible. I'm hard to feel that benefit in the raid, but actually I still think it helped Paladin to minimize the damage. No one know whether we can parry the attacks or mechanics with lower parry rate. It is full of rng. But I would like to trust 30% parry rate but not 10% parry rate. And I believe the 20% will help me in raid. And I think the stats selection is different with dealing mechanics. I don't think we should talk about how to cast SS or pop defense CDs correctly to belittle Parry. Parry is a stat, but not your in-game skill. You can be a good paladin with perfect mechanics dealing and a good tank's dps in raid. The parry is just a stat that can benefit you. Whatever you want the determination or parry to benefit you, it totally depends on you.

My PLD gears are based on the Determination. I'm trying to change most my parry gears to Fcob gears having determination.
However, for the 3.0 new raid. I plan to stack parry as much as possible in my group first 1-3 weeks progression.

In one word. I just want to say the parry is not useless like shit.
Because parry is just a stat, I believe no one rely on parry to survive from mechanics, but it can benefit paladin during the fight.
It is rng stat, but it doesn't mean useless. We can craft a HQ item in 10% HQ rate, but I believe every crafter still will try their best to get the HQ rate as high as possible.


I don't want any parry for the Fcob now. But recollecting to the first 1-2 week in T10,T11,T12 and T13. I still think parry helped me a lot.

Thanks your reply, I learned many new things.

[Rasylia]

99% parry doesn't mean you can parry every physical attack.
1% parry doesn't mean you cannot parry any physical attack.

Yes, parry is a poor stat that cannot promise anything.However, I think the parry's benefit is invisible. I'm hard to feel that benefit in the raid, but actually I still think it helped Paladin to minimize the damage. No one know whether we can parry the attacks or mechanics with lower parry rate. It is full of rng. But I would like to trust 30% parry rate but not 10% parry rate. And I believe the 20% will help me in raid. And I think the stats selection is different with dealing mechanics. I don't think we should talk about how to cast SS or pop defense CDs correctly to belittle Parry. Parry is a stat, but not your in-game skill. You can be a good paladin with perfect mechanics dealing and a good tank's dps in raid. The parry is just a stat that can benefit you. Whatever you want the determination or parry to benefit you, it totally depends on you.

My PLD gears are based on the Determination. I'm trying to change most my parry gears to Fcob gears having determination.
However, for the 3.0 new raid. I plan to stack parry as much as possible in my group first 1-3 weeks progression.

In one word. I just want to say the parry is not useless like shit.
Because parry is just a stat, I believe no one rely on parry to survive from mechanics, but it can benefit paladin during the fight.
It is rng stat, but it doesn't mean useless. We can craft a HQ item in 10% HQ rate, but I believe every crafter still will try their best to get the HQ rate as high as possible.


I don't want any parry for the Fcob now. But recollecting to the first 1-2 week in T10,T11,T12 and T13. I still think parry helped me a lot.

Thanks your reply, I learned many new things.

THIS, SO MUCH THIS.
Thank you, TomCatMew, for posting this. Finally someone who has the same thoughts as I. Being all alone on the german Forum, who stil believes Parry isnt worthless crap, its good to find someone else. Cheers

[SpookyGhost]

Just going to go over some points RE: Parry's benefits in progression.

- Firstly, parrying is great. When it procs on a tank buster you can really see how great parrying is. As a universal example, with average mitigation and an adlo (potentially + a stoneskin), a parry can make Death Sentence hit for 0. That's insane! I think, for everyone (at least early on), we saw the benefits of parrying something, realized we're a tank and mitigation is kind of our thing, and started stacking the stat Parry.

- So, I'd like to preface the rest of my opinion with something I think holds true no matter how you slice it: Secondary Stats are minimal increases in either damage mitigation or damage output (or healing output). You will see very little return on anything you invest in because that's how they're meant to work. If, as an example, you were to stack STR for accessories you would see a large increase in your DPS. Stacking DET and/or Crit will not give you the same results. This always holds true as every time main stats go up, secondary stats go up in the same manner. It's also hard to find perfect pieces that compliment your desired secondary stats (det + crit is hard to come by, parry + det equally so). So regardless of how anyone feels about Parry (including myself) if you do stack it you're not somehow at a significant disadvantage. You WILL parry more but as a result you will do less damage than if you stacked Det or Crit.

- In terms of scaling, Determination scales the best and is the most consistent. I feel like the debate of Det vs Parry shouldn't exist simply because of how reliable Det is - they're not really comparable. To an extent it's even better than Accuracy as Det has no cut off point (but of course you'll want Accuracy to the cap if you're doing any Coil level content). Parry vs Crit is a different story, however. Both don't scale that well (at least compared to Det), but as a result you get a lot more of both of them on each gear piece. Crit is inconsistent in terms of how much it increases your crit rate on each encounter and Parry is inconsistent in terms of how much it increases your parry rate on each encounter. This of course begs the question: Which is more important?

- The main issue with stacking Parry is because of it's inconsistency. As I stated in my first bullet point, parrying is amazing in terms of damage mitigation (which is a tank's main job) but your healers can never, ever rely on you parrying a big attack. The most you'll save for them, potentially, is one Eos/Selene Embrace and that doesn't cost any resources. As healers have said in this very thread, they've never seen the effect of someone actually stacking Parry and auto attacks do minor damage to begin with. Crit is in the same boat as Parry to an extent, but when it works it always has the same result: more damage. Nobody else has to rely on you critting and it just naturally happens (whether you stack Crit or not).

- I actually forgot to mention one Secondary in my previous points and that stat is Skill Speed. For WAR, this is a great stat until you reach the cap for 9 hit Berserk and then it just becomes decent. For PLD it has no real benefits outside of faster GCDs, and PLD already suffers from TP starvation if you don't get enough Shield Swipe procs. I'd avoid this stat as PLD for progression, personally.

I personally think for Coil content: ACC (to cap) > DET > CRIT > Parry > SS (SS valued higher for WAR, above DET even, until 9 hit Berserk cap then it falls down to where I've placed it here). However, I also think that you should just take what you get and not bother with secondary stats - they're not that great and they do very little for you. Accuracy for Coil is really the only one that is actually needed, the rest is all just preference (SS is very helpful for WAR as I've stated before, but it isn't 100% needed). I've said this since 2.0, I don't think BiS is as important as people make it out to be. The DPS/mitigation increase you get has always been minimal at best; This isn't like FFXI or WoW or something where you actually get large benefits (sometimes even important effects) from getting BiS. I really wish it were, but people get really anal over secondary stats and they're just... so irrelevant. Hopefully 3.0 will change that, but for now I'd just stack whatever you want and don't listen to anyone else's opinion because who caresssssssss.

[Brightsayge]

The truth of the matter is, if you are not going to be raiding in a top world guild you probably don't need to worry about it. If you are a min/max type of player regardless of your progression(which is nice I guess) then sure go with the det and the most damage, it can never hurt.

Just pick the best scenario for yourself. if you have gil to spend and want to spend it then go for it. if you don't want to spend the gil and just move on to the next round of your relic that's cool too.

The game is supposed to be fun, and if putting out an extra 20 dps makes the game fun for you, do it, if it doesn't then don't lol.

In the end no one will notice, and even putting extra det doesn't mean you are a better player.

Good luck.

[SirTaint]

I had 170 HP left, then lustrate healed me up.
If I didn't parry that auto-attack, I would die. And the akh morn would kill the Warrior. Probably we couldn't beat it.
I know it sounds ridiculous and full of rng. But it was my 1st clear.

Slow heals and DPS failing at mechanics does not make a stat better. You could have easily blocked/parried that same attack with the base rates.

You can pop Rampart+Conva before the single breath in phase 2 and it last through flatten. Makes healing that a joke. The 2nd one I just HG.


Parrying/Blocking an attack is not worthless. Stacking parry is worthless. (besides hardcore progression, maybe)

[Talec]

Ok. my weapon is finished. I did

max Accuracy and Rest Parry for Shield
Max Determination and Max Parry for Weapon

thank you all for your thoughts. This stat distribution worked for me and I call it "semi expensive". A middle way between quality and GIL-Management.