I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

[Intaki]

You may want to read the rest of the thread, there have already been multiple posts pointing out things that are never stated OR implied in the EN script. I'm not going to post them yet again... Some of you seem desperate to claim some kind of superiority by saying you understood things which could not be inferred at all from the EN script.

You may wish to read the thread as well, since many of those "points" are either outright debunked or are hotly contested with neither side able to definitively settle their point.

[Hyrist]

Inataki, it is understood that you are passionate in your defense of the Localization, but please do not mistake refutal for debunking.

My FC is running an event now. During such, when I have moments, I will be working on my breakdown of the claims being made and where they are being applied. Some claims being made, I do agree, are in error their is a wide variety of claims that have not been addressed, let alone refuted or debunked. And those who have attempt to debunk have not addressed counter-points. As such the conversation has become quite muddeled and I would like to attempt to bring it on track.

Please keep in mind, I am doing this breakdown for the benefit of the developers as to future works, to clarify my personal stance and collect a comprehensive feedback. This feedback can be discussed and mulled over, but I ask that we remember that we were instructed by a GM to keep it civil and constructive.

[Noxifer]

Line 7-9

JP: You bid me to stop the war? You might possess the Echo, but you're just a human. I cannot grant such wish.
I have awoken to answer to the roar for it was not me who roared, but one of my seven sons.
As Ishgard doesn't want to repent, my child and their people will not delay the retribution. The land shall burn, their people shall die, the justice will be done.
EN: Seven children did I sire. One now singeth of retribution.
I rise to join in the chorus...
Thou art powerless to silence us, mortal. Yet thou shalt not live to labor in vain. Thy reprieve is at an end.

Indicates that this is all still about their past sin, NOT a current one so the tone is NOT completely different and that "EN implies dragons are just angry people without a good reason." is not the case

Umm... I'm sorry, but I really can't read, "As Ishgard doesn't want to repent," as an indication that it's all about past sins. Not wanting to repent = still doing the bad things. In other words, reiterating the whole "they're about to sin again" deal and putting that as the immediate cause for retribution. (Since it appears they might be willing to delay it if the Ishgardians weren't about to do Bad Things again...)


My opinion on the whole is... I wouldn't mind the English version that much if it wasn't for the fact that it seems to be the only language that takes that path. Haven't seen any direct translations of the French and German versions, admittedly, and I don't know the languages nearly well enough to attempt to understand it directly, so if any of you players who do know those languages would be kind enough to help with that it would be awesome indeed. But from the comments I've seen in this thread, French and German versions seem to be following the Japanese text a lot better.

And yes, the impression I got was pretty much a, "Fine, Mama Crystal likes you despite you being a tiny ant, so I won't kill you -- but I'll stand by and laugh if someone else does (say, a dragon maybe? *innocent leer*). And I'll make sure you can't cheat by drawing on Her powers, either."
Even after reading through the English dialogue after seeing the more directly translated version, I still get the image of Midgardsormr grudgingly agreeing to uphold some pact he and Hydaelyn seem to have. And that he clearly doesn't really like her either. (I mean... "trickery is thy shield"? He's pretty much calling Hydaelyn 'trickery', since she's the one shielding us.)

[Mholito]

Umm... I'm sorry, but I really can't read, "As Ishgard doesn't want to repent," as an indication that it's all about past sins. Not wanting to repent = still doing the bad things. In other words, reiterating the whole "they're about to sin again" deal and putting that as the immediate cause for retribution. (Since it appears they might be willing to delay it if the Ishgardians weren't about to do Bad Things again...)

Repentance

noun
1.
deep sorrow, compunction, or contrition for a past sin, wrongdoing, or the like.
2.
regret for any past action.

[AlphaSonic]

Every single opinion of this thread is completely biased (including mine) because we know the English and the Japanese version.

[Zantitrach]

Snip

You quoted me with one of your sentences instead of mine.

These quotes are ALL your quotes. So no, its right.

but they have omitted information in the English script, and the have changed his personality, by making him more bad than wise, they even changed the relation Midgar and Hydaelyn have.

The only thing that they could have technically omitted was the current state of sinning in Ishgard. And I see that as dubious at best. The relationship has not changed either. So I don't know where you're getting that from.

Bahahaha

and he finally acts like if he were listening to Hydaelyn's words telling him to give us more power.

No he doesn't, he's musing aloud. Its a stereotypical dragon thing to do at that. If anything the EN gives us more context to the JP translation because now we know the whole thing about

Midgardsormr giving us his power and testing us is all because of a long ago pact he made with Hydaelyn "I remember and I consent"

Here you have the rest of the text where he seems to be talking to Hydaelyn, in the first he talks to Hydaelyn, we can't know if she is listening or not, as you said this is just speculation until we can advance in the story, but EN text just implies how Midgar notices Hydaelyn's intentions in our power.
Also i have took the sentences from Zantitrach's post, who disagrees with me, i have not been tricky or tried to hide anything, you can check the whole text in the previous page (depending on your forum settings).

Again, he's musing aloud, not communicating with Hydaleyn. Its what dragons do. There is 0 evidence that shows the communication with Hydaleyn is a one or two way street. The exact claim you're making that Midgardsormr is communicating with Hydaleyn and acting on her wishes is the exact same thing that

Minifilla does later in the story when she's all like "Can you hear me, please respond!"

Without that comparison, drawing that interpretation from the NA text alone becomes....... no. You aren't going to get the same thing out of it. Which is the issue.

Except its not. It was obvious to me Midgardsormr was just musing aloud since he witnessed Hydaleyn's shield.

You are right, both can be interpreted the same way, but in the English one it's harder to think he's actually talking to Hydaelyn.
No, they're both JUST him talking to Hydaleyn. Since you NEVER HEAR HYDAELYN you CANNOT say he was having a 2 way conversation with her no matter what translation you use.

Not the others, stop assuming others got the same interpretation,

Only if you will do the same kettle, only then.

[Parodine]

You may wish to read the thread as well, since many of those "points" are either outright debunked or are hotly contested with neither side able to definitively settle their point.

I guess the point is, if the English script is creating two wildly different perspectives of the conversations as opposed to the Japanese translation, then perhaps that is a failure of the localization team to properly translate the meaning of it.

[Namasu]

I guess the point is, if the English script is creating two wildly different perspectives of the conversations as opposed to the Japanese translation, then perhaps that is a failure of the localization team to properly translate the meaning of it.

That's what happen when the localization team embellish the text and spice it up with old English for fantasy immersion. It sucks if you aren't somewhat familiar with classic English literature and understanding tone and diction (sorry to most non-native reader/speak), but that's just the reality that you have to live with. The lore and localization team set a certain level of reading comprehension that they expect out of the reader and you more or less need to get better at it if you want to enjoy the story.

[Zantitrach]

Umm... I'm sorry, but I really can't read, "As Ishgard doesn't want to repent," as an indication that it's all about past sins. Not wanting to repent = still doing the bad things.

Flat out wrong. Repenting is NOT about current actions. I'm sorry you did not know that. Someone provided you with the definition though, so today you learned something.

My opinion on the whole is... I wouldn't mind the English version that much if it wasn't for the fact that it seems to be the only language that takes that path. Haven't seen any direct translations of the French and German versions, admittedly, and I don't know the languages nearly well enough to attempt to understand it directly

That paths are 99% identical with the remaining 1% being a grey area. Also kudos to you for making a story judgement call on the languages you haven't seen translated nor understand well enough to see what they say.

I guess the point is, if the English script is creating two wildly different perspectives of the conversations as opposed to the Japanese translation, then perhaps that is a failure of the localization team to properly translate the meaning of it.

Its only doing this because people aren't reading into it. Heck, sometimes they don't even understand the words they used, as refernced above.

That's what happen when the localization team embellish the text and spice it up with old English for fantasy immersion. It sucks if you aren't somewhat familiar with classic English literature and understanding tone and diction (sorry to most non-native reader/speak), but that's just the reality that you have to live with. The lore and localization team set a certain level of reading comprehension that they expect out of the reader and you more or less need to get better at it if you want to enjoy the story.

All the likes for you. This, a thousand times this.

[Parodine]

That's what happen when the localization team embellish the text and spice it up with old English for fantasy immersion. It sucks if you aren't somewhat familiar with classic English literature and understanding tone and diction (sorry to most non-native reader/speak), but that's just the reality that you have to live with. The lore and localization team set a certain level of reading comprehension that they expect out of the reader and you more or less need to get better at it if you want to enjoy the story.

...I don't understand this point. It's not the 'old-English' that's most confusing for me. It's literally leaving huge chunks of the script out.

But, to add to this point: I consider myself a well-educated person. I'm college-educated, working on a veterinary medicine degree as I type this. No, I am not a linguist or familiar with classic English literature. I shouldn't NEED to be in order to understand a translation of a conversation that is supposed to be well-understood by the majority of the audience.

If you want to imply that your reading comprehension is better based on your last sentence, then that's incredibly pompous of you. I'm surprised there isn't a classic English literature pre-test for this patch then. /sarcasm