Measurements for DPS contributions (Please SE...)

[Elusana_Celah]

How would a DPS measurement tool instruct you on your rotation? I would assume a tool would only report numbers. You need to understand your ability details & what you can access from cross class abilities.

Knowing your rotation is merely the start of it all. In highly mobile fights, you have to figure out ways to maximize your potential to continue your rotations and in many cases you may need to make different choices all together. Like before Nael is about to jump into the air to dive at people in phase 1, if you are sitting on half a full MP pool it may be better to use blizzard 3 early so you're back to full MP when she lands since the chances of your astral fire 3 running out by the time she lands is quite high.

That's just one example. I personally see a lot of room for odd exceptions to generate MORE DPS and that's why numbers would help. If anything, it would help all of these people who are subpar DPSs actually see that them not doing certain things due to laziness and whatever actually makes a bigger difference than they thought. Even if it's just a 'personal reader' that only they can see, it's still enough. Surely I am not the only one who feels DPS classes in this game can be quite in depth during much more difficult fights?

[Hollowed]

Supported!

[kidvideo]

Knowing your rotation is merely the start of it all. In highly mobile fights, you have to figure out ways to maximize your potential to continue your rotations and in many cases you may need to make different choices all together. Like before Nael is about to jump into the air to dive at people in phase 1, if you are sitting on half a full MP pool it may be better to use blizzard 3 early so you're back to full MP when she lands since the chances of your astral fire 3 running out by the time she lands is quite high.

Right, but a tool that says you have XXX dps does not tell you what to do in the scenario you described. You learn what is the best choice through understanding your abilities & the fight through experience.

[Giantbane]

Right, but a tool that says you have XXX dps does not tell you what to do in the scenario you described. You learn what is the best choice through understanding your abilities & the fight through experience.

A tool that says XXX dps gives you the ability to measure your understanding of your abilities and the fight. Otherwise, you're just sort of ballparking it.

[kidvideo]

A tool that says XXX dps gives you the ability to measure your understanding of your abilities and the fight. Otherwise, you're just sort of ballparking it.

Still don't see it... as a dps, I have an ability that does X damage. I use it, it does X damage. I don't need a tool that tells me how much damage it's doing. I can't push a button hard to make it do more damage. It does what it does.

Now, understanding your full range of abilities & cross class abilities by reading description text, tells me that if I prebuff with raging strikes I'll get a 20% boost for 20s. So that ability that that did X damage now does X + 20%.

[synesthetic]

They're not saying parses tell you -how- to do better.
Parses give you an objective reference point to see if you -can- do better or not. Like if you see you did 200 for a fight, but you hear someone else on the same job with comparable gear did 400. This tells you you have room to grow. Or maybe you know you do X amount on some fight but want to see if you can do it better by trying something different.

[kidvideo]

Hey, I'm all for it if there was no way to grief others, but you know: people, online.

[Atomnium]

Right, but a tool that says you have XXX dps does not tell you what to do in the scenario you described. You learn what is the best choice through understanding your abilities & the fight through experience.

And this is exactly why a parser should be a mandatory starting point (and later a well needed friendly tool), it will show your weakness and force yourself on self-improvement against a static and harmless enemy.
The way you will dodge in X fight or learn to coordinate your movements will then be based on the training you dedicated to your DPS.

A parser will not do the work for you, it doesn't think, it will not teach you how to dodge, it will not tell you when using a specific CD at a precise moment, it doesn't forgive . It will just show you a possible weak spot within your gameplay in order to solve it by your own.

If there was no DPS check fights in FFXIV, I would say... As long that your rotation is correct and you do fine with dodging / movements, we could be like "eh, who care, let's keep it this way"
But that's not the case, FCOB proved once again that tight DPS check fights are a strong and important point when the DEVs are actually designing such contents. A parser is a necessity in your learning progression for them.

[Snugglebutt]

One thing that confuses me about all this DPS parser talk is just how much DPS is required for such things as coils, or certain trials (Odin and EX modes etc)...I see people bragging about having 400 or 500+ DPS quite often on these forums from the hardcore crowd yet I reckon most players who are not in final coil tend to have no more than say 200-300 on ilvl90-120 for example depending on classes, gear, mechanics like single foe/multiple foes and large amount of mobility fights.

I personally would not be against personal single player only parser built into the game in which cannot see anyone else's DPS, but I can definitely see why seeing everyone else's is a bad thing leading to vindictive and negative consequences. My point overall being even if have official in game single person only parser...without knowing what sort of ranges are required for specific trials, raids and dungeons (taking into account character levels, classes, ilvls, gear, stats, specific fight styles for example many foes vs single foe fights and actual fight mechanics) it becomes semi-worthless.

[synesthetic]

One thing that confuses me about all this DPS parser talk is just how much DPS is required for such things as coils, or certain trials (Odin and EX modes etc)...I see people bragging about having 400 or 500+ DPS quite often on these forums from the hardcore crowd yet I reckon most players who are not in final coil tend to have no more than say 200-300 on ilvl90-120 for example depending on classes, gear, mechanics like single foe/multiple foes and large amount of mobility fights.

I personally would not be against personal single player only parser built into the game in which cannot see anyone else's DPS, but I can definitely see why seeing everyone else's is a bad thing leading to vindictive and negative consequences. My point overall being even if have official in game single person only parser...without knowing what sort of ranges are required for specific trials, raids and dungeons (taking into account character levels, classes, ilvls, gear, stats, specific fight styles for example many foes vs single foe fights and actual fight mechanics) it becomes semi-worthless.

Makes sense, and people do come up with and share target DPS figures like that for some fights. But that's a total DPS figure for the party, not per member.
It'd be kind of unfair to set a figure per member. Especially considering classes like BRDs which often parse less because they're singing to give back TP/MP to other people who run dry in longer fights.

But generally speaking, the 400+ figures DPS "brag" about is about the target that people should be aiming for for final coil. Coil (particularly SCoB and FCoB) has the tightest DPS checks, and a couple of primals are pretty high, until Echo comes out to ease the difficulty. 200-300 is the average single-target range and is honestly fine for the rest of the content in this game.

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It's that damage disparity coupled with the attractiveness of endgame content that's promoting judging and exclusion, but there's still a lot that's dependent on the community. There's a lot of talk here of people afraid of elitist behavior, shunning or harassing people based on their DPS like it's a label attached to them. What I see on my server, at least, is plenty of people are willing to give advice on how to bring out a job's potential. I don't see many people ask, however, and I've seen plenty of hostility from people who don't want to listen to advice and essentially just want to be carried.
There's good and bad behavior on both sides. Whether or there's parser info available or not shouldn't make a difference from how things are now, because there's already unofficial parser info.