I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

[Renik]

You really believe that the localization team can just write whatever they want without a shred of oversight, even when the exact opposite has been stated to be the truth, don't you?

Have you seen how many time SE have released content without testing it or taking into account how will it affect the overall game? take hunts as an example, this is because how the dev team works, this was explained once, in the e3 i think, to save time and work on a faster pace, each team works individually and without constant supervision, most times things are not revised inside the own Japanese team, do you really think the localization is revised by the JP dev team? no, it's revised by Koji, and the mistakes we are talking about came from him.

And even if you think the vast majority of the player-base shares your opinion you're wrong, just by checking the likes in this thread you can see how 4 out of 5 readers want a more true localization, what you see here is a micro society with diverse tastes that represents the overall player-base with more or less fidelity.

Don't throw now the vocal minority argument because it would be ridiculous on your part.

[Atmora]

One of the most notable examples of this was Final Fantasy Tactics, a game which had a rushed English translation script that bordered on being hash at times. For the PSP re-release The War of the Lions, it received a complete re-translation which corrected many of the problems in the original game's script.

Unfortunately it also removed the legendary "Tough. Blame yourself or God." line. Sometimes bad translations become iconic.

I mean there's also FFVI where the original localization was almost universally considered better written than the more loyal handheld script.

[sarehptar]

I think that whether or not there even is an original script is a totally moot point.

Three different teams chose longer and more complete scripts of a similar tone to each other. One team chose a shorter script of a different tone to suit a made-up pet language.

Sounds to me like someone was too proud of his creation and put that above conveying things in a way that all players could easily understand, or even a way that tonally matches the story as it is being told by the other teams. The post on Dragonspeak gives the impression that Ferne created the dragon language/speech style to be used by all the teams. So why is the English team the only one who felt like sticking with it for Migardsormr? Maybe the other teams recognized that a script following those arbitrary rules would be difficult for players and would not suit that scene or the story overall. Even if the script is created strictly as a team effort, the fact that three of the four teams chose to do something else should tell you that the one outlying team's idea was not the popular choice. The fact that the English team went ahead with their version despite all the other teams choosing different smacks of personal over-involvement in the English script's decision-making process.

[Intaki]

I just don't believe the execution of such should lead to an entirely different depiction of such a critical character.

You mean entirely different as in consisting of more than two dimensions?

I appreciate that you have your own likes and dislikes, and that you apparently enjoy the "old sage" cliche. But haven't we had enough of those for now? Old Sage Louisoux, Old Sage Ramuh, Old Sage Manderville, heck we could probably even stick Kan-E-Senna in here too.

Now, as far as ensuring all the translations of the game should be on the same page? I completely agree, and wholeheartedly support the other sectors (including JP) taking more inspiration and direction from the great writing Fern's team has given us.

[Atmora]

Sounds to me like someone was too proud of his creation and put that above conveying things in a way that all players could easily understand

James Joyce was too proud of his style to make it easily understandable to the layman so Ulysses is a poorly written work.

[sarehptar]

James Joyce was too proud of his style to make it easily understandable to the layman so Ulysses is a poorly written work.

Uylsses is not a video game marketed at teenagers and 20-year-olds who barely pause to read in-game text, let alone have the literary background necessary to closely analyze and discern linguistic complexities. Your choice of comparison is completely irrelevant to this situation.

[Parodine]

Oh wow, I was actually completely unaware there was an alternate point of view.

My impression listening to the English cutscene was that Midgardsomr resented Hydayln's blessing thinking he couldn't kill me when I had, and took it away so maybe one of his kin or someone else could kill me. I never got the impression that I was being tested, just being messed with. Especially with 'Ishgard will burn'. It's intensified in the next scenes following as Moenbryda is about to die and we can't get Hydayln to listen to us 'If only he didn't take my echo!'

I hope in the next story arc Ishgard's sins are brought to the light and we see what japanese midgard was talking about

[Atmora]

Uylsses is not a video game marketed at teenagers and 20-year-olds who barely pause to read in-game text, let alone have the literary background necessary to closely analyze and discern linguistic complexities. Your choice of comparison is completely irrelevant to this situation.

Inception had characters with motivations that were not directly stated or immediately apparent therefor it is too hard to understand.

[LunaHoshino]

I draw the line at the altering of character depiction, and have just as much problem with Midgardsormr as I do the Ishgardian House Lord residing in Fort Dragonhead. (If you did not know, other game versions depict him as a pervert.)

... you really can't see why the English localization decided to tone down a character who sexually harasses the PC?

[Delily]

Stopping you here.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I'm disapproving of a depiction of a character in reference to the world context, not the story itself. Indeed the story is yet to be told, we have but a small fragment of the story as a whole - yet, one localization has Midgarsomrs intent diluted in murky speech and outright differences in information told. And the other three are rather straightforward.

This is where we will have to disagree. I am perfectly ok with the NA localization team altering the tone and even the personality of a character if it, in my opinion, improves the story.

And I disagree with you referencing fairly tales as a reason to approve of writing discrepancies. This isn't the age of Grim's Fairy Tales, where a story gets retold over generations and gets provided a different viewpoint or even an entirely different plot over and over again. Nor does that sort of logic apply here, as that would imply that the story itself should change to appeal to each individual audience. That only works in individual depictions of a tale. Like how 'The journey to the west' is depicted in many games and litterateurs throughout Japan. or the Hero's Journey is often referenced in game materiel and folklore.

Have you ever played the game "telephone"? Even in a circle of people sitting together, an idea gets encoded and decoded by people differently. The same applies here. Doing a straight English to Japanese translation

This is the information age, in which we need not be divided by tones of culture, our viewpoints appealed to as if we're too immature to handle that some things are different than what we initially understand. In which people are, at the same time, side by side, being told two different depictions of a story by the very same global storyteller. Sorry, but I don't agree with that vein of logic.

The fallacy here is the claim of homogeneity, that somehow a story that would appeal to a Japanese audience would appeal to an English audience. Any company that develops products in different countries understands those countries have their own culture, and thus they should try to develop and market the product differently. Case in point, a relative of mine, while working in London, got a job as the United States spokes-person for a company that sells snack food. Same product, same basic line, but they hired her because she understood American culture - our history, our references, etc enough to translate from their English message to their US message. Another example, look at the styles and tones of manga as compared to comics. Square may be telling a global story, but they do need to temper that story to the audience in question.

I'd disagree with the claim that the English localization team thought we were too immature. I think the NA version is far superior to the Japanese version.

And MANY Square Enix fans felt to same way - to the point where there was fan-translations of classic Final Fantasy games on emulators to better depict the story told, and to the point where those same games got re-localized when they were re-released later on.

Having lived in that age, as well as the original Dragon Ball Z, it was because those translations were terrible and heavily censored. That is not the case here. T

Or how North American audiences pushed hard to get a local version of the 'Ultimate Editions' of many Square Enix games, such as the like of FFX, FFX-2 and the Final Mix of Kingdom Hearts games.

I do hope you understand the intention in wanting a more universal depiction, as well as the appeal of it. I suppose its the difference of exclusive and inclusive desire, neither one is incorrect. But in a game, a seriese, that often attempts to bridge gaps and traditionally pushes for acceptance and unity, to keep pushing the depictions apart from each other strikes me as rather contrary to overall theme.

Unity does not mean uniformity. A good story teller will tell a consistent story every time. A great story teller will tailor the story to his audience.


Also, Intaki, site your source on the matter of how FFXIV is an exception of localization. I do beleive you're misinterpreting your pet interview.

I believe you have it backwards. Though this matter could easily be resolved by a Community Rep clairfying the matter. However by my participation and research of the process:
The Localization teams do not participate fully in the writing process. Rather it is the writing team that partially participates in the Localization process. And only to a certain extent given all the difficulties an international company of a non-English speaking origin has.

This is easily evidenced in the fate of the use of the name "Acheron" and how the development and writing team did not keep the Localization team informed of future plans. (Localization team used Acheron to substitute for a different phonics of the name Translated as Titan in Japan.)

Regardless, in either of these cases, it's pretty boggling why there's such a difference in tone between the English and other language depictions if indeed your assertion is true. If that's the case, all depictions of Midgarsormor ideally should have been highly similar if not outright the same, yet, such as the case is, North America's is not, thus we are here debating the issue.



And yet you seem to have none of your own at all.

Are you a pawn, or a master of your own fate?

What fate have you wrought with your own hands?

... you know what, I might not mind that particular translation after all.[/QUOTE]