What is happening to healing in pvp?

[hallena]

I stopped playing healer in Frontline because it's too boring.

why do they have to take Cleric Stance away from healers? don't want healer to attack? for what? why don't stop tanks from doing damages too?

Then what would be the point of tanks since pvp don't have agro?

[Evangela]

Then what would be the point of tanks since pvp don't have agro?

stunning enemies and cover friends.

[hallena]

stunning enemies and cover friends.

Sure, if stuns were exclusive to tanks and cover didnt have a cooldown like in Swtor.
Meanwhile, Warrior's stun have a cooldown and dont have cover
By that logic white mage is the best tank of all time because their stun is aoe

[Miburo]

snip

No, I'm not. Your original argument wasn't "They should do > 0 damage because otherwise that indicates they aren't using their pvp skills and enfeebles." It was that they should be getting kills and doing a fair amount of damage if they're not bad healers, in the context of kill achievements. Those are two completely different arguments, and you're backpedaling hard. You were wrongly suggesting people are bad, and we've established you're lacking hard in experience regarding the matter. You can go 100 games and not get a kill and still be a beast-tier frontline healer. Your original argument was wrong, period. Your new super backpedaled argument is fine. Good frontline healers do use their pvp abilities. If that's your new argument, then sure. Good job.


I'll wait to see how kills are counted for the new achievements before saying how stupid SE is in that regard. If they do it like nodes then it should be fine. But as someone who actually does a fair share of frontlines, it'd be nice to see them at least try to make it more appealing for people to go as a healer. From what info we have of the new mode it doesn't seem like they're doing anything even remotely close to that though.

[Nalien]

It was that they should be getting kills and doing a fair amount of damage if they're not bad healers, in the context of kill achievements.

In the context of the Achievements, my argument was that it is possible for Healers to get some kills if they're actually contributing more than just HP Restored to the match. Healer who contribute nothing outside HP Restored are never going to get kills, the good Healers who do can occasionally get a couple. That is what I was saying.

As for making Healer more appealing, I honestly don't know what people expect them to do... Healers are the linchpin is virtually any PvP match, they're always going to get the most heat and people who can't stand that are simply never going to enjoy the role in PvP... I'd actually argue the new Adrenalin system favours Healers somewhat, seeing as it not only gives them an additional Benediction/Lustrate style ability, but is also something Archer/Bard gets. I can see Bards using Empyrean Rain being very beneficial to Healers. It's simply a matter of how powerful Raw Destruction is. If it's fairly potent then that is bad for Healers, if it's on the weaker side then it's arguably a good thing. DPS would have to coordinate their Adrenalin to deal with a Healer the same way they currently would with a Limit Break, and outside premades I don't see that happening.

[Miburo]

In the context of the Achievements, my argument was that it is possible for Healers to get some kills if they're actually contributing more than just HP Restored to the match. Healer who contribute nothing outside HP Restored are never going to get kills, the good Healers who do can occasionally get a couple. That is what I was saying.

Good luck getting 1000 kills as a healer anytime this decade with frontlines as it is now, no matter how good you are. The better you are, the harder it would be. Since good healers wouldn't be actively aiming for kill shots in the first place. It's completely unrealistic, and a dumb thing to even post. You're not getting those achievements as a healer unless party kills count towards it, period.

Actually, you'd be hurting your team trying to get kills in the new game mode, if you think about it. What's better? A healer without access to cleric stance getting a damage boost, or an actual dps on your team? You'd be bad for taking kills from your dps teammates, if anything. You're wrong either way, really. Just stop, little guy.

[Nalien]

Good luck getting 1000 kills as a healer anytime this decade with frontlines as it is now, no matter how good you are.

So what? You're acting like Achievements have to have realistic time frames for completion. They don't.

I was simply saying that a good healer will be able to get kills in Frontlines. They can, they do, and they will. Is this Achievement aimed at them? No, not really. Just like the Commendation Achievements aren't really aimed at anyone who isn't a Tank or Healer, but that doesn't stop DPS from occasionally getting a Commendation.

A healer without access to cleric stance getting a damage boost, or an actual dps on your team? You'd be bad for taking kills from your dps teammates, if anything.

Likewise it would be bad for a Dragoon with Battle Fever to continue getting kills, but that additional 40% damage is almost certainly going to help them get more kills that the rest of the team would benefit more from.

I'm curious though, how close to Cleric Stance potency would Battle Fever actually put a Healer... Just like the Achievements we don't even know how Battle High/Fever will work; Ideally they'd have an Assist system built in so the whole team can get partial credit to counter the above situation.

[Evangela]

Sure, if stuns were exclusive to tanks and cover didnt have a cooldown like in Swtor.
Meanwhile, Warrior's stun have a cooldown and dont have cover
By that logic white mage is the best tank of all time because their stun is aoe

White Mages are tanks in Frontlines anyway.

[Nalien]

why do they have to take Cleric Stance away from healers? don't want healer to attack? for what? why don't stop tanks from doing damages too?

White Mages are tanks in Frontlines anyway.

Sounds like they did just that.

[Miburo]

So what? You're acting like Achievements have to have realistic time frames for completion. They don't.

I was simply saying that a good healer will be able to get kills in Frontlines. They can, they do, and they will. Is this Achievement aimed at them? No, not really. Just like the Commendation Achievements aren't really aimed at anyone who isn't a Tank or Healer, but that doesn't stop DPS from occasionally getting a Commendation.

Except it's not unrealistic for dps. That's the point. If you did frontlines you'd see that there isn't a shortage of dps. We don't need healers going dps for achievements. But they'll have to do that if they don't want to make it impossible for themselves if it goes by individual kills. That's not a super smart thing to put in the game, is all. I wasn't talking about that though, since we don't know how kills will be counted.

And again, that's not what you said. You said:

Healers who aren't getting kills and contributing a fair amount of damage are bad healers.

Which is wrong. You called people bad who aren't bad. You can be a mega-boss frontline healer and not get any kills. Zero. Because good frontline healers stay alive as long as possible, keep other people alive as long as possible, and sleep and enfeeble people when possible to prevent them from doing damage to you, your teammates, or nodes and to keep them from denying your team kill points by fleeing. Attempting to get kills or do meaningful damage are about as useful as a blm trying to heal his team with psychic. He's got better stuff to do, and so do you. You have no ability to pressure or burst, and your kill shot potential is mostly trying to get the finishing blow on a guy who is already going to be killed by your teammates anyway. What you said was wrong and clearly demonstrated your lack of experience as a frontline player, and you can't weasel out of that by trying to backpedal with me.