Quelling Strikes

[chidarake]

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healers - exactly, regardless at how you may see it, it is agro control on behalf of the healer, grabbing hate right away may not be a good idea and I wouldn't imagine to many healers try it but they could, just like dps can go full aoe before tank pulls as well.

dps - that comment is about a tank that already has the mob but is losing hate on your primary target, switching for atleast 1 gcd move is a good thing, I never said go all out spaz on a random enemy the tank hadn't grabbed. but I will make myself clearer next time.

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as blm and other classes that have access to quelling strikes, using it on a judgement call is probs the best way, its how I do it except when raiding then I use it on either heavy dps sections or as its up.

[Ashkendor]

As a dps you can play the "they need qs" but in all reality the tank needs to prioritize the abilities they use. Flash spam as a Paladin isn't going to cut it. No matter how you slice it, it will never work. As a paladin you need to know that and adjust accordingly.

I'm not sure how else you'd maintain aggro on 20 mobs at a time as a paladin while you have DPS aoe'ing them down. Cycling through them and hitting a grand total of one of them each GCD would be even less effective.

On group pulls like everyone is referring to. The tank and healer have a specific number of cooldowns. If the dps isn't burning them down fast enough then all the threat management doesn't matter. Because eventually the party will wipe.

I'm talking about big pulls too, and I know the cooldowns that tanks and healers have access to. Yes you need to burn the mobs down asap, but if you get your face eaten in the process it's counterproductive. Most players tend to put the blame for said face-nom entirely on the tank, but as someone that runs PLD often with a pair of BLM of comparable item level to myself, a raging strikes double flare has a very good possibility of ripping hate off me if quelling strikes isn't also used. Why would you NOT use it? It doesn't hurt your DPS in any way.

The way I see it, the onus for completing a dungeon or trial isn't just on one player. Everyone should be doing everything in their power to make sure the content is completed quickly and efficiently. Here's another example - Shiva EX. The tank is responsible for positioning Shiva so she is facing away from the party for bow phase. Sometimes though, things happen (especially in single tank runs) and she ends up facing an odd angle. Do you a) move the hell out of the way or b) sit there and eat Glass Dance then cry that the tank got you killed?

[Wintersandman]

snip.

My comment was reaching and so was yours which was the point. DPS go sometimes go Schizo and Healers sometimes medica, you can't make anything idiot proof because they always build a better idiot. Switching targets isn't even relative to this thread of QS.

I'm not sure how else you'd maintain aggro on 20 mobs at a time as a paladin while you have DPS aoe'ing them down. Cycling through them and hitting a grand total of one of them each GCD would be even less effective.

Tell me in what instance do you have 20 mobs?

Here's another example - Shiva EX. The tank is responsible for positioning Shiva so she is facing away from the party for bow phase. Sometimes though, things happen (especially in single tank runs) and she ends up facing an odd angle. Do you a) move the hell out of the way or b) sit there and eat Glass Dance then cry that the tank got you killed?

Haven't run Shiva EX so don't know the mechanic or what it does. So I can't make a judgement call on that specific example.

[Ashkendor]

Tell me in what instance do you have 20 mobs?

I probably should have just said 'a bunch of mobs' to avoid exactly this brand of nitpicking. AK, WP, Snowcloak, Brayflox HM, Haukke HM, Tam-Tara HM, CB HM, Halatali HM, and SV HM come to mind as examples of large pulls. Even the first part of Pharos Sirius and DD. Any time you're doing a big pull with the intent of your DPS aoe'ing them down, using Flash is going to be far more productive than cycling through the mobs one by one. While I'm hitting a total of three mobs with my hate combo, the BLMs are already on Fire III > Fire II and probably won't make it to a second Fire II before they get eaten alive. If not Flash, what would you suggest?

[Wintersandman]

Snip

Personally I don't like over dramatizing for effect. Flash is only effective for group pulls when weaved in with other abilities. You can easily fast blade one, flash, savage blade another, flash, RoH another, etc.

When people say flash spam I literally picture someone spamming flash which from what I have seen isn't effective. Your definition may vary.

[DxWings]

Wow all of these comments and no one seems to understand the fact that "Quelling Strikes" is not always up for every trash pull.
With that said, as a tank you have to do with the mindset that your BLMs will not be using Quelling at all, so what ways are there to hold hate indefinitely or at least enough to the point where you lose aggro on a mob at 3% health.
I'm a PLD main and I have two BLMs in my FC that I usually run expert dungeons with, and they really do burn the shit out of everything. And we're all in full i120s at this point. With weps at i115-i125
Do I often lose aggro? Not often, but here and there, yes.
The trick I find working for me with BLMs is that I can watch when my BLM used Swiftcast or is casting Flare, that helps signify to me that I need to Flash a few times. And this isn't ignoring the fact that I've been rotating my combo on different mobs and flashing in between each combo. With this, you should be way ahead in aggro lead that by the time double/triple flares go off, they'll either overtake you in aggro a bit or come close to doing so. At this point one-two flash will definitely take it back.
If you honestly can't hold aggro at all while allowing your BLMs to go full throttle without quelling then well, switch your accs to STR instead of VIT. Yes, you put more strain on your healer, but what else can you do?

[Synestr]

This is a good point. Also to note, most of the time when they get to the double / triple flare stage of rotation, the mobs is really dang close to death, if one happens to peel off, it's fine, it will be dead soon anyway. In this situation as BLM I put up my ward and burn the bastard that came to say hi to me to tha ground. As PLD when this happens, I usually stun it, if it's up, to give the BLM some time to do so.

Quelling is for big pack burns, and bursts on bosses and to be used with raging when possible. Really that's that.

[Enclavex]

If a DPS really wants to tank that badly I just let them.

This is my tanking philosophy. Seems to work well enough.