Quelling Strikes

[Wintersandman]

Having been in both situations I have become heartless.

As a tank no DPS let up for me so I had to learn to deal with it. There wasn't an excuse, on PLD and WAR.

As a BLM or any other dps. I maximize my dps as much as possible. If the tank can't keep up then there is a problem and more often than not it has to do with rotation. Now low levels <30 I can empathize with Warriors and <26 with Paladins but no Shield Oath, you're just being lazy if you can't hold threat. I still have never used quelling strikes on any dps class.

As a Healer I have let tanks die, dps die and died myself due to either DPS being jerks, Tanks not doing their job, and me getting cocky.

Healers need tanks, tanks need healers, and dps need tanks and healers to be at their best.

The only actions you can control are your own. So why worry what buff another class is doing when your priority should be maximizing your ability to do your job.

[chidarake]

The only actions you can control are your own. So why worry what buff another class is doing when your priority should be maximizing your ability to do your job.

part of "doing your job" is managing hate even as dps and healer,

tanks can be amazing at there job but on big pulls its easy for one to slip by and then get pulled from them, and when dodging so many incoming attacks it can be unseen for a afew moments where as if a dps who had the ability to reduce there threat generation could have and then not died is not necessarily on the tank. yes as tanks we strive to take all enemies and keep them till there dead but on occasion things don't work how we intended.

as dps or blm in this case we should if possible use qs and rs in these situations to help make the run smoother. is it always needed.? no.. but when we can help we should its what makes us "good at our job"

[Wintersandman]

part of "doing your job" is managing hate even as dps and healer,

Healers don't get a choice in managing hate. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but in all reality if a healer doesn't heal someone dies.

As a dps you can play the "they need qs" but in all reality the tank needs to prioritize the abilities they use. Flash spam as a Paladin isn't going to cut it. No matter how you slice it, it will never work. As a paladin you need to know that and adjust accordingly.

I completely agree. Dead dps is zero dps. A good dps can maximize their damage and still watch hate.

On group pulls like everyone is referring to. The tank and healer have a specific number of cooldowns. If the dps isn't burning them down fast enough then all the threat management doesn't matter. Because eventually the party will wipe.

[chidarake]

cut

I understand as healer you have to heal but choosing the right spell to do that with is part of healer agro control. hitting medica 2 as tank pulls trash is not a good idea and so you wouldn't do that right.!? <agro control in other words.

as dps switching to another target to give the tank a moment to stay ahead is also something every dps class can do. so it doesn't have to be quelling strikes. that being said knowing you can tank this enemy as dps and kill it before its an issue is also a good thing and can help he tank

[Wintersandman]

Snip

In regards to your healer comment, that is just silly and any healer with common sense would know better. If I were the tank, I would let the healer die. I don't care if it results in a wipe.

Also as a dps you don't want to go schizo on a random group that the tank hasn't pulled, doesn't make sense either. Which is also why as a healer or tank I would let that dps die.

People do things that don't follow common sense and which makes your specific examples as listed above irrelevant to the current conversation and a moot point.

[Ashkendor]

As a dps you can play the "they need qs" but in all reality the tank needs to prioritize the abilities they use. Flash spam as a Paladin isn't going to cut it. No matter how you slice it, it will never work. As a paladin you need to know that and adjust accordingly.

I'm not sure how else you'd maintain aggro on 20 mobs at a time as a paladin while you have DPS aoe'ing them down. Cycling through them and hitting a grand total of one of them each GCD would be even less effective.

On group pulls like everyone is referring to. The tank and healer have a specific number of cooldowns. If the dps isn't burning them down fast enough then all the threat management doesn't matter. Because eventually the party will wipe.

I'm talking about big pulls too, and I know the cooldowns that tanks and healers have access to. Yes you need to burn the mobs down asap, but if you get your face eaten in the process it's counterproductive. Most players tend to put the blame for said face-nom entirely on the tank, but as someone that runs PLD often with a pair of BLM of comparable item level to myself, a raging strikes double flare has a very good possibility of ripping hate off me if quelling strikes isn't also used. Why would you NOT use it? It doesn't hurt your DPS in any way.

The way I see it, the onus for completing a dungeon or trial isn't just on one player. Everyone should be doing everything in their power to make sure the content is completed quickly and efficiently. Here's another example - Shiva EX. The tank is responsible for positioning Shiva so she is facing away from the party for bow phase. Sometimes though, things happen (especially in single tank runs) and she ends up facing an odd angle. Do you a) move the hell out of the way or b) sit there and eat Glass Dance then cry that the tank got you killed?

[Wintersandman]

snip.

My comment was reaching and so was yours which was the point. DPS go sometimes go Schizo and Healers sometimes medica, you can't make anything idiot proof because they always build a better idiot. Switching targets isn't even relative to this thread of QS.

I'm not sure how else you'd maintain aggro on 20 mobs at a time as a paladin while you have DPS aoe'ing them down. Cycling through them and hitting a grand total of one of them each GCD would be even less effective.

Tell me in what instance do you have 20 mobs?

Here's another example - Shiva EX. The tank is responsible for positioning Shiva so she is facing away from the party for bow phase. Sometimes though, things happen (especially in single tank runs) and she ends up facing an odd angle. Do you a) move the hell out of the way or b) sit there and eat Glass Dance then cry that the tank got you killed?

Haven't run Shiva EX so don't know the mechanic or what it does. So I can't make a judgement call on that specific example.

[DxWings]

Wow all of these comments and no one seems to understand the fact that "Quelling Strikes" is not always up for every trash pull.
With that said, as a tank you have to do with the mindset that your BLMs will not be using Quelling at all, so what ways are there to hold hate indefinitely or at least enough to the point where you lose aggro on a mob at 3% health.
I'm a PLD main and I have two BLMs in my FC that I usually run expert dungeons with, and they really do burn the shit out of everything. And we're all in full i120s at this point. With weps at i115-i125
Do I often lose aggro? Not often, but here and there, yes.
The trick I find working for me with BLMs is that I can watch when my BLM used Swiftcast or is casting Flare, that helps signify to me that I need to Flash a few times. And this isn't ignoring the fact that I've been rotating my combo on different mobs and flashing in between each combo. With this, you should be way ahead in aggro lead that by the time double/triple flares go off, they'll either overtake you in aggro a bit or come close to doing so. At this point one-two flash will definitely take it back.
If you honestly can't hold aggro at all while allowing your BLMs to go full throttle without quelling then well, switch your accs to STR instead of VIT. Yes, you put more strain on your healer, but what else can you do?

[Synestr]

This is a good point. Also to note, most of the time when they get to the double / triple flare stage of rotation, the mobs is really dang close to death, if one happens to peel off, it's fine, it will be dead soon anyway. In this situation as BLM I put up my ward and burn the bastard that came to say hi to me to tha ground. As PLD when this happens, I usually stun it, if it's up, to give the BLM some time to do so.

Quelling is for big pack burns, and bursts on bosses and to be used with raging when possible. Really that's that.