Tank Weights

[Whiston]

I think one of the tricky aspects of dealing with skill speed in these equations is finding the optimal number required.
I, for the life of me, can not get 9 hits in with any less than 400 skill speed. While at our cabin over Christmas, this number was an atrocious 419. Due to different latencies and connection issues, there can only be an estimated number for the perfect skill speed.
I can fully agree that 390 should be the assumed value though.

The more difficult to calculate part of this equation is valuing skill speed as a DPS loss. In my situation that requires 400 on the button, a skill speed of 397 has virtually no more weight than the base value of 341, and in all reality, is theoretically a negative weight for berserk because it puts me closer to a completed GCD cycle than a lower value, effectively increasing my pacification time.

I think the ideal way to value Skill Speed is probably having two values - one for out of defiance, without the use of berserk, yielding a lower value, and one for in defiance without the use of berserk, yielding a higher value.
This would create an unbiased weight due to pacification, and will give a proper benchmark for comparisons to det and crit. From there, the player would do their own required testing to determine the skill speed they require for a 9 hit combo.

[Dervy]

Okay. Here's the first results of the Warrior 9GDC Berserk Model v1. It's still a little "flimsy" and partially manual, but I'll sort that out in a while. I want to give a shoutout Argyle_Darkheart for noticing a errors in my model.

The model now accurately measures whether a berserk has been activated. Once it registered a berserk, it'll run a countdown along side the model, checking off the cells, to display whether or not the skill has been buffed by berserk. Berserks timer in the rotation has been modelled as accurately I could, to take into consideration:

1) 390 should be a baseline where 9GDCs should always work regardless
2) the time within a GDC it takes to use berserk after taking into consideration the animations of GDCs (Sorry if this doesn't make sense).

Now, once I've ran some more tests to accurately determine the precise time when we're able to use berserk in between GDCs, the calculated number is 2.092s. If someone has more accurate numbers, please do tell me and I'll update the model.

The two things that we're most concerned about are:

1) Is the DPS increase of using more SkillSpeed to use 9GDCs within berserk worth it?
2) How does the Weight of SS fluctuate around the "baseline" of 390ss?

Gear Set Stats:
WD: 59
STR: 602
DET: 329
CRT: 419
SS: 20 (361 SS), 44 (385 SS) & 60 (401 SS).
Defiance: On for all tests

All we're doing in this test is determining the impact of Skillspeed, therefore only the SS value needed to be changed. The other stats will serve as the control. The different values of Skillspeed have a purpose each:

1) Very low SkillSpeed,
2) Comparison of going from below the baseline, to meeting the requirement to use 9GDCs
3) Way above the baseline

Here's the results:

SkillSpeed @ 361 = 2.481 SS
GDCs during Berserk: 8
WD: 8.232
STR: 1
DET: 0.303
CRT: 0.213
SS: 0.165

SkillSpeed @ 385 = 2.458 SS
GDCs during Berserk: 8
WD: 8.224
STR: 1
DET: 0.303
CRT: 0.213
SS: 1.009 (lol, I’ll explain why further on)

SkillSpeed @ 401 = 2.481 SS
PPS: 127.18238
GDCs during Berserk: 8
WD: 8.223
STR: 1
DET: 0.303
CRT: 0.216
SS: 0.173

So, why the hell did the Value of SS jump to greater than that of Strength at 385? Well, the way we calculate stats is by comparing the average DPS outputs per +5 in any given stat, so Strength, DET, CRT, SS and WD. At 385 SS, you're 5 points off going from 390, which is the value where we're able to do 9GDCs per Berserk. So that's a 5 wrath-stacked, Berserked BB we're able to get off - That's a truck tonne of additional DPS. I'm unable to calculate what the PPS would be, as Potency is not affected by values such as Strength, WD or DET.

The weight calculated at 361 SS is low as it's a comparison between itself 366 SS, which does not affect the rotation, other than "speeding it up".

Of course, once you're now above the baseline of 390 SS, the weight will decrease again as there's no dramatic change to the rotation, unlike the change going from 385-390 SS.

So there you have it folks. Get to 390 STR.

Also, I calculated that the lowest possible Skillspeed for 9 GDC berserk to work is actually 389.

NOTE: I have no clue why the value of CRT never sky rocketed for the 385ss model as well. I'll be checking it later, but these are my first results. I'll keep working on it when I have more time.

[stoxastic]

Thanks for doing this, this is good work.

9 berserk definitely looks like a big gain, but you attributed it to having your last hit be a butchers block. With only 8 berserk, you can adjust your rotation to use berserk after heavy swing, so you will still end on a butchers block. This can also change depending on where you put fracture in your rotation. 9 berserk still looks good, but 1 ss = 1 str good?

Also, I'm not sure if you answered the question, but it looks like the incremental gain from 385 ss to 390 ss is definitely a big gain. But you still need a total of about 50 ss to hit that number. What if that 50 ss, was instead crit? Would the extra hit on berserk be worth giving up crit/det for ss.

[Dervy]

I used the highest possible PPS outcome that can be fit into 9 GDCs, which is also part of the rotation used for the model. BB, SE combo, FR, IB, then BB Combo to end. And that is a good point, you could set it so even with 8GDC, you end with the Butchers Block. But that's still 1 additional hit that's missing out from a 1.5x Strength boost. And the way this rotation is set out, you'll end up missing a Butchers Block either way.

And definitely. If the weight increase of SS is comparable to nearly 1:1 with Strength to obtain 9 GDCs, then that makes it more worth it than CRT or DET by miles. The second you hit 390ss though, then the weight falls off completely, where it's back to your standard DET/CRT/PRY stacking.

I can't exactly advise how you should play or gear Warrior however. That's up to those who're more knowledgeable about this job than I am. What I can say is though, if you're going for a pure VIT/PRY tank, don't even bother. You'd lack the SkillSpeed, unless you decide to wait for i110 accessories. If you're going for a pure DPS spec'd tank however, then based on the updated weights, this what I can recommend: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P582. I really don't know how much VIT this set equates to though... All of this is still up in the air for you guys to discuss/criticise however.

[MrSmiley]

So if I am merely dpsing in say, a solo situation. Would rolling with defiance off result in more damage despite the lowered crit and no IB?

[Dervy]

Yup! From a pure DPS standpoint, defiance must be turned off.

[Dervy]

Thought I'd update with some Paladin Weights.

Sword Oath
WD 8.473
STR 1
DET 0.364
CRT 0.225
SS 0.146

Shield Oath
WD 8.432
STR 1
DET 0.344
CRT 0.224
SS 0.167

Only issue is Spirits Within. That's the only ability I still need to plug into the model, but that's reliant on Shield Block %, something I have no numbers on. If someone could be so courteous and provide me with the Block Rate:% ratio, I'd be grateful.

[Donjo]

Only issue is Spirits Within. That's the only ability I still need to plug into the model, but that's reliant on Shield Block %, something I have no numbers on. If someone could be so courteous and provide me with the Block Rate:% ratio, I'd be grateful.

Spirits Within doesn't depend on block rate, it's just a 30 second oGCD. The potency of the attack, however, does depend on your current health with the maximum being 300 potency. Shield Swipe is the attack that relies on Shield Block. As far as I'm aware, we have a base block rate of 10% and gain approximately 1% for every 10 Block Rate on the shield, but that could be wrong. This doesn't even count using Bulwark in an offensive manner to spam Shield Swipe with the near 100% block rate.

[Purrfectstorm]

I can't seem to get a 9-hit Berserk w/ 394 SS. So close though

Edit: Went back and tried again and I wasn't using Berserk close enough to the end of a previous GCD. Still requires perfect timing and a stationary target.

[Dervy]

Thank you Donjo, i haven't a clue why I kept thinking it was Spirits Within. What I'll do is average out the block rate gained for the duration of Bulwark and use that to calculate the procs on Shield Swipe.