Healers tanking low level dungeons

[FranSeara]

Yumi_umi: I've come to accept that there is no reasoning with you or your absurd methods. I will end my future responses to you with this:

It's not about faster, faster, faster... what about enjoying the game? Or even letting the newer or inexperienced people enjoy the game. This mentality that you adopt is very awkwardly elitist and me, me ,me, me, me... It's pretty distasteful imho. So from this point on I won't respond to you unless you are asking for clarification or whatnot on my posts. And no I'm not mad at you, it's just that you are on a planet we humans have yet to identify in the solar system when discussing this topic. lol

Going to have to join you on this one Zedd.

[StouterTaru]

By you not taking the chance as an experienced player, makes you just as guilty as the bad/new player...

My issue is, I don't consider him guilty of anything, nor do I consider what I did wrong.

This is all conjecture. You're not listening to anything at this point, but merely looking for something to pick apart and use in a rebuttal. So let me be blunt:

Your tank - for whatever reason, good or bad, which you didn't even KNOW - was just standing around. You previously mentioned he seemed lost. You at that point decided to bypass him and pull mobs. You are wrong for that. Whether you care or not, you - the experienced player - were wrong to selfishly make that determination and break your role.

And this is back to "the tank is supposed to tank because he's the tank and that's why they call him the tank because he tanks."

Remember this in Heavensward when Astrologians and Machinists rush in and bypass Dark Knights, regardless of level. Remember these exact words.

And let there be no complaints.

Look at the thread title and discussion up to this point. People will learn when the mobs start hitting hard enough to need a real tank, and in the noob dungeons it doesn't matter. If a tank wants to learn how to hold hate, they can learn as much from a training dummy as they can a beginner dungeon.

[Gorvi]

Tanks get good through experience, you don't get that on a training dummy. The lower level dungeons are the way they are so they can get used to the role so that by the time it is key for them to do it "for reals" they're prepared. Not everyone has been playing MMOs for years or has multiple 50s, there are still people playing for the first time or playing a tank for the first time.

And people wonder why so many people don't know their roles when that attitude is out there.

[Zedd702]

My issue is, I don't consider him guilty of anything, nor do I consider what I did wrong.

And this is back to "the tank is supposed to tank because he's the tank and that's why they call him the tank because he tanks."


Look at the thread title and discussion up to this point. People will learn when the mobs start hitting hard enough to need a real tank, and in the noob dungeons it doesn't matter. If a tank wants to learn how to hold hate, they can learn as much from a training dummy as they can a beginner dungeon.

Sorry, but I'm gonna get this out of the way first: You literally make no sense here... I almost feel like you're the tank you should've counseled and i'm you in your prior scenario, where I should coach or help you understand why what you did was actually wrong in assuming someone elses role... Instead of helping them understand their role so that they can do their job for a more efficient and effective dungeon run...

Tanks get good through experience, you don't get that on a training dummy. The lower level dungeons are the way they are so they can get used to the role so that by the time it is key for them to do it "for reals" they're prepared. Not everyone has been playing MMOs for years or has multiple 50s, there are still people playing for the first time or playing a tank for the first time.

And people wonder why so many people don't know their roles when that attitude is out there.

YAS! Werd to Gorvi. The point I am trying to get across...

[Ninster]

After reading this thread, I'm thinking I may really just dodge the DF for my tank jobs. I've only got 10 more levels to cap on both anyway, and lots of leve allowances. I can only imagine what kind of hell I might get into if I end up in Stone Vigil and people are pulling while I'm still trying to figure the best way to separate the patrols from everything else.

[Gorvi]

After reading this thread, I'm thinking I may really just dodge the DF for my tank jobs. I've only got 10 more levels to cap on both anyway, and lots of leve allowances. I can only imagine what kind of hell I might get into if I end up in Stone Vigil and people are pulling while I'm still trying to figure the best way to separate the patrols from everything else.

It's really not that bad, I took my Warrior from 25 to 50 a month or so ago and had no such problem. Honestly, they try that crap in Stone Vigil and all you need to do is stand there while they get stomped. By that point they simply can't run out like a lunatic shouting "Eat my face!" and not have the mobs do just that.

[Zedd702]

After reading this thread, I'm thinking I may really just dodge the DF for my tank jobs. I've only got 10 more levels to cap on both anyway, and lots of leve allowances. I can only imagine what kind of hell I might get into if I end up in Stone Vigil and people are pulling while I'm still trying to figure the best way to separate the patrols from everything else.

You're on Goblin, the same as ThirdChild. I'm sure she would be good to you as I would if you were on Shiva with me or even if I ran into you in DF. But you are the prime example of a new tanker in development that can grow for greatness with proper lessons, minus the impatient, selfish, elitist dickheads and/or other dickery...

[StouterTaru]

Sorry, but I'm gonna get this out of the way first: You literally make no sense here... I almost feel like you're the tank you should've counseled and i'm you in your prior scenario, where I should coach or help you understand why what you did was actually wrong in assuming someone elses role... Instead of helping them understand their role so that they can do their job for a more efficient and effective dungeon run...

So am I also playing BLM wrong when I assume someone else's role there? Tossing Eye for Eye on the tank, or using a Physick when the healer is briefly incapacitated, or burning down an add as it spawns before the tank can establish hate, are all these things stealing someone else's role?

The more effective and efficient dungeon run isn't always one where the tank holds hate on everything 100% of the time.

I have no problem helping someone new, if they ask for help or say they are new. If they don't say so much as hello and just stand still doing nothing, it's a different story. I feel I taught him two valuable lessons about the game.

1 - don't expect strangers to stand around and wait on you while the dungeon timer expires.
2 - don't expect to get help if you don't ask for it

[Elladie]

I have a lvl 50 WAR - levelled mostly via leves before ARR landed. I levelled it initially to get some cross skill I needed (for THM, I believe, and yeah I know that sounds ridiculous, it was a damage mitigation move and parties took THMs to Ifrit hard mode back then). Found I enjoyed it and finished it to 50 (more leves!). I'm really looking forward to DRK when it comes out, but despite having levelled WAR, I haven't actually tanked much (see above). So I thought I'd give GLD/PLD a go. I'm now at low-level dungeon stage. I've run these dungeons many times as DPS and Healer, but the thought of tanking them fills me with terror.I am completely new to it, not sure of the dungeon maps (everyone blindly follows the tank, right?) not entirely sure of the mechanics of each fight from the tank angle. But the thing that really puts me off is over geared DPS/Healers not being patient with my newb tank and refusing to allow me the time to learn. Reading this thread has really made me wonder if I should forget the whole thing. I'm there to get experience in my job, learn it through and through, hopefully with helpful team mates. It's a levelling dungeon so I'd also like to get as much XP as possible. Is all of this too much to ask?

[Zedd702]

So am I also playing BLM wrong when I assume someone else's role there? Tossing Eye for Eye on the tank, or using a Physick when the healer is briefly incapacitated, or burning down an add as it spawns before the tank can establish hate, are all these things stealing someone else's role?

The more effective and efficient dungeon run isn't always one where the tank holds hate on everything 100% of the time.

I have no problem helping someone new, if they ask for help or say they are new. If they don't say so much as hello and just stand still doing nothing, it's a different story. I feel I taught him two valuable lessons about the game.

LOL don't get me started on the BLM assumption of roles and especially with BLM burning an add down before tank establishes hate... 9 times out of 10 the BLM pulls that hate and takes damage assuming the role of the tank. And it always leads to a tank trying to rescue the BLM that is kiting said add and nearing the brink of death, causing chaos in other directions with the rest of the hate flocking to healer cause the tank has to chase your hate, etc. Then they blame the tank or healer once they die, instead of

A. Allowing the tank to establish hate before you start chanting your Harry Potter spells
B. Running the hate to the tank, if they pull it off the tank in the first place (which happens frequently)

Again, two wrongs does not make a right, just because they did not speak or ask does not mean they do/don't need help. It does not hurt for you to ask or offer, especially where you spot area of opportunity as the seasoned/experienced player. Some players may have just gotten out of a really bad DF experience where they got their ass chewed for not knowing (when they may have just purchased the game not too long ago) and probably afraid to ask questions in fear of the same treatment...

The most that can happen is they decline your help/advice and then you can carry-on as you so please.

1 - don't expect strangers to stand around and wait on you while the dungeon timer expires.
2 - don't expect to get help if you don't ask for it

The above as far as I am concern is crap and more of your way to justify to yourself that you did the right thing. Now I see what ThirdChild was referring to with saying the following: "This is all conjecture. You're not listening to anything at this point, but merely looking for something to pick apart and use in a rebuttal."