How is SMN overall dps?

[Maero]

Ahh gotcha thanks
Wondered why the odd few used Ifrit in say ST

[Tex_Mex]

I main SMN and I can tell you that Ifrit is hands down higher dps in most situations. When I am able to use Ifrit, I see 20+ DPS increase almost every time. The MP spent is slightly higher for ifrit, since you have to cast your DoT's more often, but it can be made up for by not using Ruin2 all the time, which is the most common mistake that SMN's make

Ifrit loses its usefulness when/if:
He will take significant amounts of aoe damage
His travel time will be high
more AoE damage is needed from the SMN

Fights that I love to use ifrit in are T10, Shiva Ex, Ramuh Ex, most of ST (except the knockback AoE guys), nearly all dungeons.
The only time I pull out Garuda is when I will need increased AoE damage (cause Contagion+Bane = love) or if I need to have my pet in a safer place.

It is worth noting that Ifrit does require more micro as far as positioning, but good SMN's can maneuver him without any DPS loss since you can use pet action commands while casting or waiting for the GCD

[Sanguisio]

SNIP

Ifrit is good at times, but if you are lining your skills up the benefit contagion brings outweighs him situations where extra DOT time is allowed.
-Considering the MP you save by using contagion there is no reason not to use her unless it is trash you are dealing with, then his slightly higher potencies help.

Are you fully taking advantage of contagion ?
-PPPs
-Xpot
-RS
-All target DOTs

[Tex_Mex]

snip

Yes, I started my SMN career by using Garuda all of the time. Like you, I once believed that Garuda was higher dps output because of those same factors. 15s longer for a raging strikes buffed set of DoT's! Sure!! But you have to remember that contagion is on a 1 minute CD, which means it can only ever apply to about 1/3 of the DoT attacks you use anyways. Throughout all the rest of that time, the 30+ dps that ifrit puts out in just his auto attacks outweighs the contagion benefits by quite a bit.

Try it one day. Sit down with your smn at a target dummy and try it out. If you find something different let me know. Because all of the testing I have done shows ifrit to be higher dps in fights where his safety is not as big of an issue.

Of course, if you have to heal him all the time........ then go with garuda

[ShinryuReishiki]

Ifrit is good at times, but if you are lining your skills up the benefit contagion brings outweighs him situations where extra DOT time is allowed.
-Considering the MP you save by using contagion there is no reason not to use her unless it is trash you are dealing with, then his slightly higher potencies help.

Are you fully taking advantage of contagion ?
-PPPs
-Xpot
-RS
-All target DOTs

Contagion by itself essentially just amounts to casting 3 more Ruins each minute, and if coupled with Miasma 2, actually does not save MP. You should be using less Ruin IIs with Ifrit, so consumption is more even than it seems.

Contagion + Buffs is a considerable damage increase without a doubt, but how often are you getting that boost? If a fight is 9 minutes long, that's twice you'll get to use Raging + X-Pot + PPP + Contagion and once without the X-Pot. That's 45s of extra damage in a 9 minute fight. Using Ifrit instead of Garuda is 9 minutes of extra damage in a 9 minute fight.

Unlike Garuda, however, Ifrit is not safe for every fight. Any encounter where the boss has a knockback or circle AOE that would lower its uptime or potentially kill it, it would be better to use Garuda. Also, fights where the pet needs to be at a specific location to help split damage. For example, I use Ifrit on T10-13 (Though I use Garuda on the physical resist trash in T11 >.>), but I wouldn't use it on T7 or T9.

[Tex_Mex]

snip

I am glad to hear that you are getting to play your SMN in final coil. So many SMN's are getting denied FCoB entry at the moment that it is tough to remember a few groups still try and play them. My SMN has barely seen any play time in the coils yet (just one day when our BLM was out sick) since I also have a 50 DRG and it is just better 99% of the time, even though its gear is not as good.

[Judge_Xero]

I use Ifrit in all of FCOB now. It even works out well on T11 since my group also runs a BLM. Ifrit helps soak Repelling Cannons (since there's a lot of AOE heals going out I just set him and forget him) and it helps out on melee damage for the Sphere.

*** Even with Melee X 2 Bard and SMN I'd be interested in trying Ifrit on Sphere, SMN on Cube and Lvl 2 Mage LB on both the Sphere and Cube, LB2 takes less time to cast than for the Modules to combine and with SMN away from the party there's no risk of clipping people with Thunder. That way you can finish them much earlier and blast away the Egg.

T10 - just does better damage and due to gear increases Contagion is much less effective. Can get dicey if he eats too much Crackle or Tail swipe, so watch sicking him on adds while they are getting into position. (plz SE increase the range of Flaming Crush wtf)

T12 - Just better with so much up time of attacking Phoenix. Bennu Phase sucks when Ifrit gets clipped by a Flames of Rebirth between Bennu kills because he'll run off and do 0 damage to a shielded Phoenix for however long it takes you to figure out where he is. So a bit of micro management here. (not using Contagion here gives you more control of your dots so that Bennu's don't die when they shouldn't)

T13 - pretty much for all the same reasons.

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I prefer to start with Garuda though for her amazing opener.

Start with Shadow Flare in place. RS, INT POT, B2+M+B, Fester, PPP, M2 + Contagion, SC Ifrit, Energy Drain, Fester, Aetherflow. (Ruin II's for weaving) Use Rouse + Spur + Enkindle with Ifrit.

- I use Energy Drain on the opener with all party buffs up (Trick attack, Foes, etc whatever your pt comp is) because it lets you get Aetherflow used up faster and in long fights you are going to be using at least 1 Energy Drain, so why not use it when it's going to be very strong at the start.

- When using Ifrit you don't have to worry about saving RS for when Contagion is up, but it is recommended to use it prior to applying Bio that way you can cast a second Bio while it is still active.

- I like that you have more freedom with Ifrit to not have to base your rotation around Contagion.

[Sanguisio]

OK I will do this properly when I get home, but just some working out.

But Garuda should contribute 170 more potency than Ifrit.

There are little things which can make a difference:
-foe req buffs garuda and her contagion bonus
-Wars buff ifrit very slightly along with DRGs I think.

But like I said before, if the fight is short or your buffed DOTs wont tick fully. Use ifrit as he does do more auto attack damage then garuda without a doubt, but when DOTs will tick fully Garuda is better.

[Tex_Mex]

OK I will do this properly when I get home, but just some working out.

But Garuda should contribute 170 more potency than Ifrit.

There are little things which can make a difference:
-foe req buffs garuda and her contagion bonus
-Wars buff ifrit very slightly along with DRGs I think.

But like I said before, if the fight is short or your buffed DOTs wont tick fully. Use ifrit as he does do more auto attack damage then garuda without a doubt, but when DOTs will tick fully Garuda is better.

I am interested to see your numbers. In every 4+ minute parse I have done against target dummies, Garuda never beats out Ifrit, regardless of contagion buff synergy. Ifrit's constant 20-30 dps increase over Garuda's autoattack wins out as long as the fights go longer than 2 minutes. Also remember that Spur and Rouse buff Ifrit by about 20% more than they buff Garuda due to ifrit's naturally higher dps output, as well as the fact that garuda has to stop attacking to use Contagion, so she loses one ranged attack from that

[ShinryuReishiki]

Storm's Eye + Dragon Kick increase Ifrit's damage by the same amount as Foe Requiem would increase Garuda's, but Foe Requiem will have less uptime than the other debuffs due to MP dependency versus being part of a rotation. Even without the blunt debuff, which is the more significant of the two, I get more out of Ifrit.