Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[OneWingedSora]

Snip.

The point still stands. Any serious progression group would prefer a BLM over a SMN as their primary caster.

Also, unless you are overgeared to the bones, multiple deaths in any end game content is not really an option, which renders battle-res useless.

[VoltaAsura]

I've been looking around the net an I've been getting a lot of mixed messages. Posts about Summoner being top DPS and posts about Summoner being subpar. I've even seen posts about people kicking Summoner because of said DPS.

Can anyone explain why?

Why not play the job/class yourself and come to your own conclusions?

[Dinocat]

Just a bit about the SMN utility factor; already posted in other thread but will link here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2595719

It is true that a SMN brings utility, but utility only when the content is killable with deaths; farm status or content with a low/no DPS check requirement.

All of this is purely based on a min/max scenario assumed as minimal item level required to kill the content, entirely in relation to comparison of class roles.

Most fights in FCoB take about 10 min or more with bosses health pools closer to 1 million HP. 50 DPS over 10 minutes is 30,000 Damage or 3% of the boss HP. 100 DPS is 6% of the Boss HP. Classes being able to do 3-6% (30-60k) more on a boss than another class is quite a significant difference.

[Sleigh]

tl;dr of why SMN is the worst DPS:

- Almost completely outclassed by BLM (burst, sustained DPS, no resource issues - would require VERY heavy movement or multi-DoTs for SMN to beat BLM) which is huge when considering a job's position if you have an alternative that does almost everything the same or better in effective terms
- MP issues lowering their already low-end DPS (unless you can multi-DoT a lot but BLM wins anyway)
- Multi-DoT situations often too short for the ramp-up (ironically SMN was better in this area when we weren't overgeared but then it was more a liability to T12/T13 phase pushes anyway)
- "Utility" is either covered by the existence of SCH having Super-Virus, meaning it doesn't matter what type of Virus SMN has since every group has the one Super-Virus user they need, or you don't need it currently (pets can't do stack mechanics, Resurrection in FCoB is more or less only used as a means to prolong a wipe anyway for learning purposes during progression). The most you can say about SMN utility is it has a slightly faster E4E which should never be make or break (and TBH 99% of groups don't have such E4E upkeep that it's used on CD by all, even in high end groups)

[scribble92]

Most end game raids punish death severely thus res has no use. A summoner is last priorty for a res anyway. If you are needing more than 2 res in a minute there is something very wrong. Eye for an eye can be used by scholar at the same frequency. White mage and black mage can also use all be it on a slower cooldown. A good scholar should be controlling virus use. White mage and black mage can also use virus although it doesnt have the super virus trait. So overall summoner utility isn't anything special.

[zcrash970]

God forbid you have to use a skill with lower potency to regain resources. Fights in FCOB have very little down time, meaning melee run dry around 4 minutes even with invigorate, no paeon means if we did not have to deal with a mechanic (in certain fights at least), we are going to be scraping for TP. I would gladly take a lower potency skill for to regain tp.

I think you missed the point entirely.
I was making the point where if the bard was going the play AP or MB for strictly DPS resource restore, then AP will always be the better choice no matter what. Even if you add the tanks and healers to this, AP will probably be better. Most healers can manage their MP to last an entire battle if it is a perfect run( i.e no one has died,) while on the other hand tanks, in particular OT WARs, will burn through their TP no matter what and probably need AP at some point much like the DoWs DPS.

Also, yes. You should be using ED once for every Aetherflow stack but it brings our DPS down no matter what kind of spin you put on it. Our utility doesn't make up for the DPS gap between BLM and SMN.

[Lilyarel]

Why not play the job/class yourself and come to your own conclusions?

I have been. Summoner was the first job I got. But lately I've been feeling more and more useless and all this talk about Summoner being subpar isnt helping.

[Sleigh]

I have been. Summoner was the first job I got. But lately I've been feeling more and more useless and all this talk about Summoner being subpar isnt helping.

Checking your achievements, you haven't really hit the content where you should feel less useful than other DPS. At the level of content you're doing, you shouldn't feel weak, that is purely a gear/skill issue at that point.

Only really becomes apparent in FCoB and if you do old content with skilled, overgeared players where DoTs can't last on anything but the main boss.

[Lilyarel]

Checking your achievements, you haven't really hit the content where you should feel less useful than other DPS. At the level of content you're doing, you shouldn't feel weak, that is purely a gear/skill issue at that point.

Only really becomes apparent in FCoB and if you do old content with skilled, overgeared players where DoTs can't last on anything but the main boss.

Its just that whenever the tank makes big pulls, I just feel like I'm slowing everything down. When we have a BLM in the group everything seems to go faster. I apply all my dots and do everything I can to keep DPS up, I just feel like a massive anchor.

[Brianmj]

She wants to stop playing Summoner but she can't.