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  1. #121
    Player
    Lavieh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    304
    Character
    Ellunavi Sevald
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Akiza View Post
    During the umbra fire the Black Mage is gaining stacks and getting procs which increases their damage and while in umbra ice their damage is steady while they restore mp.
    What is umbra fire.
    (6)

  2. #122
    Player
    Viridiana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,481
    Character
    Aria Placida
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Akiza View Post
    During the umbra fire the Black Mage is gaining stacks and getting procs which increases their damage and while in umbra ice their damage is steady while they restore mp.
    Or, y'know, they're doing the smart thing and jumping straight to AF3 like they should be. If a BLM is gaining stacks one at a time they're doing something wrong.
    (2)

  3. #123
    Player
    Ardan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    243
    Character
    Ardan Lauriers
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Akiza View Post
    During the umbra fire the Black Mage is gaining stacks and getting procs which increases their damage and while in umbra ice their damage is steady while they restore mp.
    That's still not how BLM plays. Try again.
    (4)

  4. #124
    Player
    Havenchild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    990
    Character
    Avalen Koma
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge_Xero View Post

    Can't really even blame it on gear. I know SMN gets shafted by Spell Speed this gear set, but overall it's a loss of like 20 DET the way that the secondary stats scale. (losing 45 DET but gaining around 60 Spell Speed) Round it up to 6 INT worth of stats and that's like a 3 DPS gain.

    Edited: Just wanted to mention that the above is comparing classes close to i130, the difference isn't near that great for i115 or less.
    equal classes at i115 SMN is ~20-40 DPS difference. (not counting bard)
    I disagree alot with this statement. Consistent testing I have done has considerably shown DET at current in game is quite a powerful stat on SMN. I particularly noticed what felt like a buff to it post 2.4 patch. Usually a decent amount of INT could trump even 1.5 times of it in DET but post 2.4, I have noticed a big shift in that and DET keeps showing me bigger numbers on parse when I sacrificed INT for it (assuming Im getting a decent amount of DET per INT)

    Two comparisons me and a SMN friend have been making was my 19 INT vs his 34 DET and which was better. I had more crit then him and was critting MORE then him (20 times roughly).

    End parses were quite similar maybe a 3-6 DPS difference on average, in my favor, using the exact same rotation, nothing different. So that 45 DET would stomp on that (60 SS + that 6 INT) by much more then 3 DPS.
    (0)

  5. #125
    Player
    Sunako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,439
    Character
    Sunako Kirishiki
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Our bis gear have +100 spell speed

    if this site is correct http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...eight_updates/

    you can calculate sacrifice from that way
    100 spell speed x 0.098 = 9.8 int
    (you can get 2/3 det compared other stats If it is not relic weapon)
    66.66 det x 0.284 = 18.93 int

    Then you can calculate how much you lose from spell speed 18.93 - 9.8 =

    9.131 int gain if you would get det instead spell speed. Also site should have different weight depends do you use garuda or ifrit if spell speed does not affect ifrit.
    (0)
    Last edited by Sunako; 01-12-2015 at 07:57 PM.

  6. #126
    Player
    Truedragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    150
    Character
    Truedr Mercer
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    There isnt anything inherently wrong with SMN. The ppl complaining about the job, just want to see SMN being top DPS because they MAIN it. What is funny is that SMN is only noticably behind because they boosted BLM like 6 months ago. And at the time, the ppl complaining about SMN now, also complained about BLM being too weak in Second Coil. So BLM got a boost, and now they are demanding SMN boost for Final Coil.

    Seems pretty shady to me. To make matters even more laughable is how half of the ppl complaining about SMN, have already beaten T13 as a SMN. The funny thing is, there isnt even a real issue with SMN. You got 4 jobs that are purely DPS which are 3 melees and 1 caster. And the DPS is real close between the 4 of them. Then you got 2 support jobs, a BRD and a SMN. Why should support jobs be near the DPS of the previous 4 anyway?

    Both jobs have full motion of freedom, making them virtually immune to all mechanics except raid wide AOE while having birds eye point of view across the arena. And they offer support to the group in their own ways. Yes, battle rez is less usefull now, but the complainers forgot that battle rez has been top of the line support for over 1.5 years and still is outside Coil. And wipes do lead to instant death. But that was always the case even back in the days of First and Second Coil bar the very few rare occasions.

    Its not like the support jobs arent OP enough already. A BRD could literally stack CRIT all the way up to the 700, which is the same as 50% crit. And the SMNs complain about their gear? Duh, it is not like a BRD can stack 700 CRIT with dreadwyrm or poetics.

    The "free" gear is what it is. You got two casters wearing the same gear. So obviously it has to be tuned either to BLM or SMN, or to both (which means average gear). This time around, it seems it is more tuned to BLM. Thats where all the complaining comes from. Its not like there aint other options around like I dont know...ARACHNE, several which are BiS anyway.

    The problem with SMN is also that when you overpower them too much, they instantly overshadow all other jobs coz they have full freedom of movement, dots that will always tick and pets that can be resummoned. Who the hell wants groups composed of 7 SMNs and 1 WHM doing raids anyway. PPL already forgot about the early days of Ramuh where Titan could tank Ramuh and essentially bypass all the mechanics of the fight. How fast did they patch that shit up. If they had made that possible, first all tanks wouldve become obsolete followed by all other dps. There would be no need for any other jobs except SMN, SMN, SMN, SMN, SMN, SMN, SMN oh and maybe get 1 healer just in case. We dont want that, so just deal with it.
    (3)
    Last edited by Truedragon; 01-12-2015 at 08:48 PM.

  7. #127
    Player
    Sunako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,439
    Character
    Sunako Kirishiki
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    These jobs are support jobs but BLM and SMN are the ony ones that does not support damage.

    Bard
    - sing foe support magical damage
    - sing tp support melee damage
    - sing mana suppor summoner damage and healers heals

    Monk
    - Dragon kick support damage and reduce attacks from the boss.
    - mantra support heals

    Dragoon
    - Disembowel support bards damage
    - mantra support heals

    Ninja
    - Goad support tp and that way more damage
    - Trick attack support whole party damage
    - slashing debuff support slashing damage
    - mantra support heals

    SMN
    - Combat ress raise from the dead
    - Virus reduce enemy damage
    - eye reduce enemy damage

    BLM
    - Virus reduce enemy damage
    - eye reduce enemy damage
    - Apocatastasis reduce enemy damage
    (0)
    Last edited by Sunako; 01-12-2015 at 09:58 PM.

  8. #128
    Player
    Judge_Xero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,228
    Character
    Divine Gate
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Havenchild View Post

    End parses were quite similar maybe a 3-6 DPS difference on average, in my favor, using the exact same rotation, nothing different. So that 45 DET would stomp on that (60 SS + that 6 INT) by much more then 3 DPS.
    I didn't care enough to figure out the exact value. I just wanted to highlight that the difference in gear wasn't going to make up 50-100 DPS.
    (0)

  9. #129
    Player
    Tex_Mex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    412
    Character
    Tex Mex
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Truedragon View Post
    snip
    Salt much?????
    I enjoyed reading this because it amused me that someone's viewpoint could be so different from my own.

    You stated: "Then you got 2 support jobs, a BRD and a SMN. Why should support jobs be near the DPS of the previous 4 anyway?"

    In what world is SMN even close to a support job? They bring almost no utility to raid, especially FCoB where battle rez is useless. I would not mind SMN having lower DPS if they actually had support abilities that rivaled bard, but no one would ever take a SMN over a BRD into FCoB if they had a choice.

    The issue with SMN is that they do NOTHING well, their utility is weak, and their DPS is significantly lower than BLM, in all aspects (AoE and single target) . I am ok with SE fixing either one of those those things, but pick one and address it.

    And try not to be so extreme, though hilarious, it will rarely be respected.
    (4)

  10. #130
    Player
    point09micron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    102
    Character
    Turambar Mormegil
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunako View Post
    These jobs are support jobs but BLM and SMN are the ony ones that does not support damage.

    BLM
    - Virus reduce enemy damage
    - eye reduce enemy damage
    - Apocatastasis reduce enemy damage
    You can't call BLM support when 2 of the 3 abilities you list are cross-class from Arcanist. A more reasonable statement would be Apocatastasis, Lethargy, and Sleep. Two of which don't work on most 8-man content (Lethargy works on Scylla and I think Glasya, but that's all that I know of).
    (3)

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