[Theory] ACN removed, SMN remade

[Brianmj]

People complaining about summoner aren't necessarily doing so because of the dot/pet job aspect. Many of them wants summoner to Just either be a viable single target dps or get enough utility to justify their current dps.

Smn Just wants to have fun with any content like other jobs can

When Levi Ex came out, Summoners didn't complain. When SCoB came out nobody complained. The line was "Summoners were the king of SCoB". I'm not doing the FCoB yet, but apparently Square designed a series of fights where the job isn't meant to shine. If there is an actual dps issue, I don't know, I don't parse, where Smn is lagging behind other jobs, then maybe there should be some tweaks. But in a thread titled "ACN removed, SMN remade", it's hard not to get worked up. ACN is the essence of SMN. It's why I love the job.

Perhaps we're finally getting the SMN we always wanted?!

That's the line from the OP. What does she mean by the "SMN we always wanted"? FF11 Summoner? A Summoner modeled on Yuna? Who knows?

[Wildsprite]

I vote to remove carbuncles from the game. If they remove classes we should get our regular job summons right away...right? Also because I'm tired of seeing people beat this particular dead horse with a stick.

SMN gets Summon III at its start and still has Topaz Carbuncle till 35 and Emerald Carbuncle till 45 so they could pretty much keep most of the story the same as the ACN story line changing just a few words here and there.

adding new story for SCH from 1-30 would ofcourse be needed and they would have to decide what class skills they wanted SCH to keep.

would be nice if they did remove the classes they gave SCH a native ability like Cleric Stance and gave them Leeches much sooner than they do.

I don't really put anything past them. If they wanted to remove classes they will. It seems as though it would take a lot of work though for no return.

I would like to see SMN have a less warlockesque skill set but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

I really think their announcements for Heavensward were a hint toward the removal of classes. I'm hoping if they do have this planned they give us really cool stories for it.
they could still go with the guildmaster we start with for the class as the beginner trainer for the job. I highly doubt that would hurt much of it.

[Roris]

...

I do admit I didn't fully read the title until I hit post, it was mostly a response to people saying classes couldn't be removed due to the lore, but the lore was already skipped anyway when jobs were added and even Ferne admitted it was a sort of deal where they hoped no one would notice.

I don't really mind SMN being based on DoTs and their pet mechanics. Personally I think it'd be cooler if all SMN abilities were tied to their summons, including their DoTs, if they were to revamp it to remove its base class. I think it would be interesting if instead of an Egi or maybe as a companion to it, they had Primal elemental stances that changed their base abilities depending on the Primal they're summoning. Though the existing Egi and DoT mechanic is fine and I can see why people want it to stay as it is, because aside from their current issues, it works alright.

[Mirron]

I like current Summoners too, I just don't think that they feel like Summoners much. I realize why they did the decisions they did with it, but I think that it'd be possible to design a Summoner that feels closer to a Summoner without being unbalanced.

[Airget]

Well see with SMN/SCH the issue with the design is when they were making the class they had to make it where it fight with both jobs and overall that kind means only 5 skills on hand are different and pet skills are different.

It would be nice if they did consider revamping the SMN side while keeping the SCH side as is cause I honestly feel arcanist skill set serves SCH better than it does SMN. Since if we think of SCH from the XI sense of white and dark magic, while SCH is more emphasized as white magic, their "DoTs" serve as the dark magic size of SCH and means in which they defend themselves. Honestly with that in mind it would be neat if SMN could be given a different weapon entirely instead of being books like SCH, SCH use books lol but I know they can't just change that though an evoker orb or something would be neat but that is asking for a lot cause then you have to change alot of animations lol.

But ya in terms of overall design currently SMN doesn't really fit the bill of a job that uses pets, they play the sideline more. again this occurs cause the 5 abiltiies gained, 1 summon, Fester(designed for DoTs), Tri-disaster(waste of space), Spur(enhance pet dmg potential) and Enkindle (5 min timer lol). Truth is SMN job abilities don't do anything to enhance the pet aspect but when you look at SCH.
Adloquium, Succor, Leeches, Sacred Soil and Lustrate, not only do they all enhance SCH's abilities but they are all viable to use at one point or another. SCH obtains a way better aetherflow based skilled compared to SMN's Fester, so overall it does feel like arcanist was designed with SCH in mind and SMN as a side even though arcanist is set as a DD role.

Here's one concept that comes to mind with pet management since they plan to add two more most likely Ramuh and Levi making 5 the pets could be designed with specific roles but with a gimmick in which you can only control them for a set amount of time before they unsummon and then the timer goes up based on when you returned them.

So say Ifrit is the pure single target DD. Garuda the AOE, Titan rather than a tank tank a mix of both eddiciencies single target and AOE dmg but with focus on DoT via AOE. Ramuh could be focused on single target AOE being more efficient than Ifrit's single target dmg while Levi would be a put AOE version of titan's DoT aspect.

So basically in dmg potency it would be something like
Single target dmg= Ramuh(DoT)>Ifrit>Titan
AOE target dmg=Levi(DoT)>Garuda>Titan

Basically Titan serving as the middle between single target and AOE dmg to be the replacement when the "trance" on ifrit or garuda is down but basically the idea behind the job would then be to maximize in when to swap out, best use of pet during x time and keeping an eye on duration of trance before uncalling or calling back sooner to recharge faster/save for another moment but overall the concept would be a means to make it where one pet wouldn't be the end all be all because you would have a limit on how long you could keep the pet out before having to switch to another one and then switching back when you can regain control of the trance.

The thought process behind this idea is how SE wants to attempt to make everything relevant so in the sense of adding more pets, how can you make it where all pets are used at one point or another. By the above idea, each pet has a role and you can maximize x role based on the amount of enemies or what's needed.

What differs in terms of say how BLM acts i a BLM will never fall into a scenario where their pet is on cooldown and they have to switch up/weaken their dmg potency for x amount of time because they can just keep switching back from ice-fire throwing thunder rinse repeat.

SMN on the otherhand would be able to start strong but then have to switch it up to a less efficient pet while waiting for their other pet to regain control and then to maximize damage they learn to time the switching back and forth between said pets.

Of course what makes things more dangerous for SMN is if a pet dies then it's recast is set to the max which would make the Sustain ability more effective for SMN.

But again this is just an idea that just came into my head I"m sure there are issues with it but speaking from the idea of making sure no pet is ever purely useless do feel that this is potentially one way.

[Mardel]

SE just needs to do a few tweaks to "get rid of the classes". Though this method is not a true way of doing so:

1. Make it so when you complete the first job quest to obtain the soul stone, you will never be a lancer again (example); that character from there on out will always be drg when equipping a spear

What about sch/smn? Easy fix:

1. Add a quest inbetween the arc >>> sch/smn quest.
2. Have you meet both NPCs you choose to "follow" one of them. You automatically get a book arc/smn for the one you follow (example) that is required for to be worn for the first smn quest; however they still give you the book other as well arc/sch (for the other 1st quest)

[Brianmj]

snip

Noooooooo! No changes, Square. No changes!

I am the voice of opposition to the OP's ideas, her sympathizers and all the variations they come in!

Summoner is great the way it is now!