4 Star Master Books - Completely frustrating and unfun.

[Bubblegum01]

With the current market price in tonberry, the profit you can get from selling 4* gears are less than 200k. You see allagan silk at 80k and arachne web at 14k and then you see arachne cullotes of casting at 700k and people complaining that the cullotes is too dem expensive. I would really wish to smack some of these players head. But even more i would like to slap the heads of the crafters that sell the dem cullotes for less than 700k. There are hardly any profits left in 4 star crafting. if you fail to nq then you have to sell it for less than base mat price and these buyers demands guaranteed hq without understanding that you cannot guarantee hq 4* recipes. Nevermind the cost it takes to unlock masterbook 2. My advice, if you are trying to unlock 4* recipe for profit... Don't.

[xPeAcEx]

@xPeAcEx: Why WN2? xD That's got to me my least favourite lvl50 skill personally ^^

I won't lie, it used to be my least favorite as well. I felt like too many steps were being wasted. Depending on how my rotation is going before the first MM II

3-4 Tots: Go into a MMII repeat rotation which include 14 80% HTs and has enough to finish with both GS, INNO and BB. It doesn't matter if we have 395 or 398 CP, we need 5 or 6 ToTs throughout the entire synth. 35-37 steps roughly.

Less than 3 ToTs: go into a WNII rotation, which depending on how it goes and CP available will have enough to proc a MM and recover 30 dura. Which has a minimum 12 80% HTs, 15 at 80% if you recover enough cp since i usually manage to fit in a 3rd full or clipped CZ as well. Now whether you choose to go SH II + WN II or WN II + SH II is something you will have to decide on the stop, i prefer SH II + WN II since it gives me a chance to proc ToT.

[Kiyyto]

Scarebearz gets 4*, there is no rotation.
You have to feel it out, calculate your CP, adapt on the fly.

I rarely nq a 4* item. Sometimes i have to do it 5,6,7 times to Hq using reclaim... And yes, sometimes reclaim fails me, but I'd estimate I sit at least an 85% Hq rate and I've done hundreds of 4* synths.

4* is a ton of fun, is stress... But, it's eustress.

[Empty-handed]

With the current market price in tonberry,

thats pretty much the tonberry market. where the end product is cheaper sold than the cost of the mats :/

2 reasons:

- too many crafters. (leads to blind undercutting. people become impatient and just want to get gil flow even at a loss!)
- less demand. or if there is demand. people are cheap and not willing to pay for the items.

our market sux overall.

i have a friend in Odin and i do check their market regularly, the prices are appropriate vs the cost of the mats. granted everything there is 3x the prices in tonberry. but as i said:

Odin: crafted product = profit+cost of the mats
Tonberry: crafted product = generally a loss + cost of the mats.

if you want to make up for the loss in tonberry you have to 100% gather EVERYTHING and craft all the mats YOURSELF!. and be 100% self reliant.

[Truedragon]

With the current market price in tonberry, the profit you can get from selling 4* gears are less than 200k. You see allagan silk at 80k and arachne web at 14k and then you see arachne cullotes of casting at 700k and people complaining that the cullotes is too dem expensive. I would really wish to smack some of these players head. But even more i would like to slap the heads of the crafters that sell the dem cullotes for less than 700k. There are hardly any profits left in 4 star crafting. if you fail to nq then you have to sell it for less than base mat price and these buyers demands guaranteed hq without understanding that you cannot guarantee hq 4* recipes. Nevermind the cost it takes to unlock masterbook 2. My advice, if you are trying to unlock 4* recipe for profit... Don't.

That is what happens when too many crafters compete for the same stuff.

The problem you are facing is that people leaked the rotation online. When the patch first came out, I spend millions experimenting with rotations uses and for what works for me. Noob crafters are now able to do the same without any research or any investment. They just read it from pioneers who went before them. The other issue, is that it used to cost 10 million or so to get 1 craft up to 4 star. Now it cost maybe 2 mill. This is why leaking stuff bites you right back in the end.

I fear for Odin too. Everyday it seems there is a huge influx of 4 star. All wannabes who powerleveled their way to 4 star without any research or investment. People who plundered their mommies creditcard to buy gil and then powerlevel up to 4 star.

Prices gets dumped at Odin too. But usually once the competition is gone, we rise the prices right back up. You need a 100% margin at least to make gil. Some of the crafters bought mats at ridiculous prices and tried to sell them for tiny little margins. They probably thought they were smart when they were playing a fools game. Something that cost 2 mill to craft and up for sale at 2.3mill is just what you expect a fool to do.

It didnt occured to them that if they get unlucky once with reclaim or if they NQ it once, they are downright in loss and need to sell 10 crafts to just break even.

Prices that are too high are a big problem aswell. Margins that are too high lures too many people in trying to powerlevel to 4 star which is a problem. And it lowers turnover rates. I rather sell 5-6 a day rather than 5-6 in a week any time.

[xPeAcEx]

Leaked rotations? It's the old 3 star rotation with an extra step. If it took you millions to work it out, you did something wrong. The whole problem is that 4 star has no benefit for end game other than glamor.

To make things worse, many people who play this game for end game battle have no real means of making the sheer amount of funds needed for a full glamor set without buying gil. Especially when there are better glamor sets. To make things worse, once the level cap is raise, all current gear becomes obsolete.

As for the loss you are talking about, there is only a potential loss with the 3 star artisan off hands because those need to be HQ and the 4 star foragers vest. The rest of the gear is mostly used for glamor and most crafting requests are for normal quality and not high quality.

[Sibyll]

snip

You think it's good design to gate crafting progression with a 10 million gil investment? Not every crafter is leveling crafts to play the stock market game on the MB and get undercut all day. Some actually level crafting so that they don't have to depend on the absurd prices that idiots charge on the market boards.

[Meier]

what? tell that to the 99% of the bards population rocking the Kirimu Coat penta melded... :/

actually. make that 100%.

It is still not BIS. One piece for all the work they make us do with the crafting? Nope. It's just not worth it to me. I'll eventually do it, but taking my time lol.

What I meant was, they could make the crafted item drop from the raid and let us craft it into something, etc. But..I don't want to turn this too off topic. Just my own thoughts. I doubt it'll ever happen anyway haha.

[Truedragon]

Leaked rotations? It's the old 3 star rotation with an extra step. If it took you millions to work it out, you did something wrong. The whole problem is that 4 star has no benefit for end game other than glamor.

To make things worse, many people who play this game for end game battle have no real means of making the sheer amount of funds needed for a full glamor set without buying gil. Especially when there are better glamor sets. To make things worse, once the level cap is raise, all current gear becomes obsolete.

As for the loss you are talking about, there is only a potential loss with the 3 star artisan off hands because those need to be HQ and the 4 star foragers vest. The rest of the gear is mostly used for glamor and most crafting requests are for normal quality and not high quality.

Lol@you for talking smack to me.

If the rotation is so easy, then how come you could literally count with 1 hand how many crafters could craft 4 start 1 week after the patch. Yea it is so easy to talk smack now. But back then, only 1 or 2 guys were able to sell 4 star. Thats called pioneering, little kid. Only a handfull were able to craft it coz only a handfull of crafters were top of the game.

It took 60 million to get several 4 star books for crafts at that time. The mats were that expensive. You could not find anyone posting any rotation anywhere. It was grey territory. Completely not like today where you can get your 4 star book for a mere 2 million and where you could read up what you needed to do and how to do it. Someone else has already done all that for you.

That is called pioneering, little kid. Like the great explorers of ancient times. The landscape was barren, wild and unexplored. You were the first to set foot. Its not like today where you walk into a street and the road is paved for you with traffic lights and public transport.

Experimenting with the rotation costed me millions at that time. 1 allagan leather was 800k on the market. And you needed 3 for a simple craft. 5 for a chest/ pants. Has nothing to do with me screwing up. Its called economics. Its as simple as that. The very first people who got those mats were greedy bast%^!# and set the prices that high. I have no control over that. For me the only question is, will I buy it at that price.

As for gear becoming obsolete. Well, that is true for every type of gear, be it dungeon or crafted. Do you really think dreadwyrm will still be BiS when the new expansion arrives. They will be as usefull as current high allagan gear = nice for subjobs but for your main you will be upgrading into the new stuff.

As for BiS set up, there is a thing called stat weights. You might want to check it out yo. Some of the crafted gear are BiS. And some, while they may not be BiS, they will be the second best for a very very very long time. Its not like the bard dreadwyrm coat is farmable for 98% of the players. And yes, Kirimu Coat is BiS untill that day you beat the randomluckgods and you can farm T13. We all know that is not something you can do in a week. And even if you were to farm T13, it could literally take 6 months before you get your coat. Thats where crafted gear comes in. BiS or not, you control the stats essentially bypassing all the randomness.

You think it's good design to gate crafting progression with a 10 million gil investment? Not every crafter is leveling crafts to play the stock market game on the MB and get undercut all day. Some actually level crafting so that they don't have to depend on the absurd prices that idiots charge on the market boards.

Yes, that is good design. You need some sort of investment. They are not going to give it to you for free. Nothing in this world is for free. By the way, SE does not set the prices. It is players that set the prices. So if it cost you 10 million to get to 4 star, then thats because players set the mats so high that it took 10 million to get there. SE has very little control over those prices. They can make stuff easy to obtain and in that case the mats will drop in price as the market gets flooded. But the initial price is what players set it to be.

[Kalandros]

Yo, Truedragon guy, please get out of here.

I started 4 star crafting without knowing what to expect and made HQ items right away (ok that 47% one was pure luck through a bad luck rotation).

There's no big secret and no "pioneering" I didn't look for info on 4 star rotations, I went with what I knew of making the master books and adjusted.

Please stop thinking you're some kind of elite crafting god.

Man, people like you are annoying as hell.