We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

[Orrias]

Having thought about it again, adding PIE to SMN books would help, at least superficially, however, that doesn't negate the fact the Energy Drain (an oGCD ability that is meant to help in return MP to a SMN on demand) is still a dps loss because it's tied to Aetherflow.


Imo, Energy Drain should have it's Aetherstack requirement removed, and placed on its own CD, separate from Fester. Let Fester be the nuke, and Energy Drain just an oGCD ability akin to Jugulate, Mug, etc.

[Clarkamite]

I spent a couple hours one night talking to the SMN in our static about where SMN currently stands. I can say as a BLM main that SMN definitely feels sort of gimped at the moment. It feels like SMN is almost balanced around having a Foe Rec singing bard in the group whereas a BLM is just going to do some sick DPS with or without one.

My one question I have is if you are saying anything about DPS numbers being too low for a SMN, where are you getting the numbers? From everything I've heard any and all parses on SMN are inaccurate. How inaccurate I don't know but from what I've heard the parsing of dots is an estimate and there are certain things it just doesn't register at all.

I do feel like SMN is slightly less useful than a BLM at this point in coil but at the same time I don't know how much of a buff they would need. I doubt that anything will change with the current classes until expansion. Unless there is some glaring thing brought to SE's attention. It's too close for the jobs to be changing anyways for it to really matter. Yes they would probably benefit from some sort of a buff and it's also probably needed but at the same time where they stand right now isn't in a horrible place either. They're useful, they do solid DPS, and they do offer valuable utility. I don't know of any group that is excluding SMN's at this point.

EDIT: One thing I will point out is that I see a lot of discussion about SMN's having mana issues now with this Final Coil. I'll have to pay more attention but in the past our SMN has NEVER even come close to running out of mana and he's also not holding off on using Ruin 2 or Shadow Flare. I've watched some gameplay videos he's put up and it does look like at times maybe he's not going all out blasting things as hard as possible but at the same time he's always hovering anywhere from 360-400 DPS depending on the turn. How much more DPS does he really need to be doing? It does suck to not be able to just constantly nuke all the time like some jobs but I think part of that is unless you're trying to progress and squeeze that lemon as hard as you can, there's no real need to blast away until your mana starved once you have content on farm. That's usually when my group eases up and starts just worrying about opening chests and hoping for the loot we will never see.

[Shizuna]

I cleared FCOB as a SMN, I didn't switch to BLM but it still took quite the effort to do so...
It's ok though spellspeed helped!! /sarcasm

lol, I'm on the verge of getting to clear t13 and I have a load of sps (to be exact 495 sps)...

Imo, Energy Drain should have it's Aetherstack requirement removed, and placed on its own CD, separate from Fester. Let Fester be the nuke, and Energy Drain just an oGCD ability akin to Jugulate, Mug, etc.

That kind of suggestion would directly buff SCH, so I don't think this should be done. Anything that a SCH and SMN share in skill and traits would affect each other, which is why SMN is limited for now.

snip

Well, I'm not sure if I'm doing any better either, but I do around an average of 410-430 dps in t10-12 (likely low for my ilvl), while my static BLM is doing 460-480 dps. And we both have about equal average ilvl. Most SMN's will energy drain under 1k MP to not go completely oom, but they lose out on a bit of dps because of that.

[Sleigh]

EDIT: One thing I will point out is that I see a lot of discussion about SMN's having mana issues now with this Final Coil. I'll have to pay more attention but in the past our SMN has NEVER even come close to running out of mana and he's also not holding off on using Ruin 2 or Shadow Flare. I've watched some gameplay videos he's put up and it does look like at times maybe he's not going all out blasting things as hard as possible but at the same time he's always hovering anywhere from 360-400 DPS depending on the turn. How much more DPS does he really need to be doing? It does suck to not be able to just constantly nuke all the time like some jobs but I think part of that is unless you're trying to progress and squeeze that lemon as hard as you can, there's no real need to blast away until your mana starved once you have content on farm. That's usually when my group eases up and starts just worrying about opening chests and hoping for the loot we will never see.

360-400 is really bad for every turn, no offense to your SMN.

This topic was never about if SMN can complete content, meet enrage timers, kill adds in time, etc. It sure can, especially once your group gets the content in question on farm. The issue is it's just a worse DPS than the others, and in the MMO community it's a legitimate issue when the job you gear up (based on weekly lockouts, no less) and specialize in is not wanted and shunned by people in the know.

[loreleidiangelo]

360-400 is really bad for every turn, no offense to your SMN.

This topic was never about if SMN can complete content, meet enrage timers, kill adds in time, etc. It sure can, especially once your group gets the content in question on farm. The issue is it's just a worse DPS than the others, and in the MMO community it's a legitimate issue when the job you gear up (based on weekly lockouts, no less) and specialize in is not wanted and shunned by people in the know.

Do you mean that those numbers are bad in comparison to other DPS jobs, or bad for a SMN specifically? If it's the latter, knowing gear/ilevel might change that.

[Akiza]

I spent a couple hours one night talking to the SMN in our static about where SMN currently stands. I can say as a BLM main that SMN definitely feels sort of gimped at the moment. It feels like SMN is almost balanced around having a Foe Rec singing bard in the group whereas a BLM is just going to do some sick DPS with or without one.My one question I have is if you are saying anything about DPS numbers being too low for a SMN, where are you getting the numbers? From everything I've heard any and all parses on SMN are inaccurate. How inaccurate I don't know but from what I've heard the parsing of dots is an estimate and there are certain things it just doesn't register at all.

I do feel like SMN is slightly less useful than a BLM at this point in coil but at the same time I don't know how much of a buff they would need. I doubt that anything will change with the current classes until expansion. Unless there is some glaring thing brought to SE's attention. It's too close for the jobs to be changing anyways for it to really matter. Yes they would probably benefit from some sort of a buff and it's also probably needed but at the same time where they stand right now isn't in a horrible place either. They're useful, they do solid DPS, and they do offer valuable utility. I don't know of any group that is excluding SMN's at this point.

EDIT: One thing I will point out is that I see a lot of discussion about SMN's having mana issues now with this Final Coil. I'll have to pay more attention but in the past our SMN has NEVER even come close to running out of mana and he's also not holding off on using Ruin 2 or Shadow Flare. I've watched some gameplay videos he's put up and it does look like at times maybe he's not going all out blasting things as hard as possible but at the same time he's always hovering anywhere from 360-400 DPS depending on the turn. How much more DPS does he really need to be doing? It does suck to not be able to just constantly nuke all the time like some jobs but I think part of that is unless you're trying to progress and squeeze that lemon as hard as you can, there's no real need to blast away until your mana starved once you have content on farm. That's usually when my group eases up and starts just worrying about opening chests and hoping for the loot we will never see.

Bards do anywhere from 400-420 dps in fcob depending on the turn and that's while having to use FoE and Ballad. That's the problem the Summoner's dps is around that of a Bard without any of the utility a Bard brings.

[Akiza]

If SE is going to keep the Summoner Dps around that of a Bard they should give us crowd control and utility.

[ShinryuReishiki]

From everything I've heard any and all parses on SMN are inaccurate. How inaccurate I don't know but from what I've heard the parsing of dots is an estimate and there are certain things it just doesn't register at all

They certainly aren't 100% accurate due to the way DoT damage is registered in game, but as of recent updates, it's generally within +/-1% of the actual damage.

Do you mean that those numbers are bad in comparison to other DPS jobs, or bad for a SMN specifically? If it's the latter, knowing gear/ilevel might change that.

Both, I'd imagine. 450-480 is where I'm at on SMN, depending on the Turn. If well-played and in equivalent gear, MNK, DRG, NIN, and BLM would all be close to/exceeding 500. BRD is the only DPS that would be under SMN, but if they have a DRG and Ballad is not needed, BRD would edge out SMN as well.

[Viridiana]

My one question I have is if you are saying anything about DPS numbers being too low for a SMN, where are you getting the numbers? From everything I've heard any and all parses on SMN are inaccurate. How inaccurate I don't know but from what I've heard the parsing of dots is an estimate and there are certain things it just doesn't register at all.

This was true, like, 9 months ago. Since slightly before SE went all don't ask/don't tell on parsing, parsers have been reading memory to get accurate dot information, which is what used to break SMN parsing.

[Lavieh]

This was true, like, 9 months ago. Since slightly before SE went all don't ask/don't tell on parsing, parsers have been reading memory to get accurate dot information, which is what used to break SMN parsing.

ACT had trouble calculating Bio when it was contagioned for the longest time, not sure if this is fixed or not. Regardless this only effected parses with Garuda, Parsing on a test dummy with Ifrit is more ideal and will give you a bigger, possibly inflated DPS number to compare to other classes.