Why no further Echo on T9?

[Craiger]

There you go OP

Well, lol...

Didn't see that coming in a patch like that

[Gardes]

Don't get your panties in a bunch. Echo for SCoB is now 15%. Most likely there will be another increase at 2.48 to 20%.

Oh and to the person saying you need to be at 3 meteors to beat the T10 enrage... wrong.

I don't know, my party beat the enrage by only a few seconds with 1 dps only have a HA weapon and the other 3 having soldiery weapons and when we went back to farm nael with the same gear and 10% echo, we were getting 3 meteors. Iiirc our 1st clear (1 week before nael got the echo) we were still getting 4 meteors.

Maybe not need 3 meteors but I'd imagine beating the t10 enrage would be a gamble at that point.

Edit: Whoops, I misremembered. Was getting 4 meteors with 4 soldiery dps while trying to get clears. Cleared it and tried to farm before trying to clear t10 futilely and only 1 dps got their ha weapon (bow) and was only getting 3 meteors half the time. Then cleared t10 with 2 ha dps and 2 soldiery dps before the middle floor gets electrified and we went back to t9 where we start clearing t9 with 3 meteors regularly.

[AxelDH]

In T9, each new phase is completely different to the last, so its almost like learning 4 fights. T10 keeps the same mechanics in each phase and simply adds to them as you go along, so it should take less time to learn.

But the DPS checks are tighter and its harder to heal (compared to echoed over geared T9 anyway). So everyone has to pull their weight!

[Elazu]

The current echo is huge already.

[ruskie]

You have to know the person next to you and what they need to do and if they screw up how you can cover them while they pick themselves back up. In fact you need to know everyones roll and how they will react, and how your entire team moves as one.

This right here... It's not about raiding on set times, being the best of the best etc... it's all about being willing to learn the fights and the people you are with on how they will react to things. Once you have that fights become much easier. It's about the team and how people fit together and not who does better than the rest.

[LunarEmerald]

Don't get your panties in a bunch. Echo for SCoB is now 15%. Most likely there will be another increase at 2.48 to 20%.

Oh and to the person saying you need to be at 3 meteors to beat the T10 enrage... wrong.

The dps required for 3 meteors is around 2000. But it's harder to hit that mark in T9 due to the downtime between jumps, but there was a 10% echo to help with that.

the dps required to beat Turn 10 without hitting the soft enrage is a little over 2000.

You are the one who's wrong.

[Mugetsu13]

Well, yeah. Otherwise they would have increased it, but I...

but I don't like how all these "last turn gates" are more about playing with the same people all the time, and your level of communication, than actually being good at your job/dodging mechanics.

I'm fairly certain most people can play their preferred jobs to near perfection and still wipe with a group due to no communication. The healers may not know the times tanks need extra attention (ie:Cooldown reset), DPS may not be familiar with the way other players move and run each other into death, hell, even tanks can mess up if they get too lax with aggro and have an add taken by someone who they would swear was targeting another (see: DPS). Communication is the best way to resolve all of these issues after every wipe, but on DF no one ever talks (with very, very few exceptions) which is why statics are common and almost required to clear your ""last turn gates"

[Rad7]

Please don't change it, as a casual/mid core who is finalllllly getting into coil I'm excited for the impending wipes once we finish off twintania and make our way to second. I115 may be easier to get but I want ha just cuz of principle, it's been the top tier for so long it'd feel cheap to get it without a real challenge

[Prototype909]

I have a saying regarding most fights in this game. You don't clear a fight in this game based on your best player - you clear a fight based on your worst player. One critical mistake is often all it takes to nullify the effort of the other 7 players, in basically every fight assuming you're not overgearing it. Even comparably easy turns like 6 and 10 (6 before it was nerfed even further) could turn into something unrecoverable if one person doesn't know what's going on.

[JayCommon]

My main issue is the lack of patience of the playerbase.

Too many times now I've gone into DF T9. I've reached Phase 4 a grand total of 2 times over the last 2 weeks of using the DF. And here's the kicker - "yay we got to Phase 4, only took 2 tries! Wait what? Why are we Vote Abandoning?"

...

As Coatl says, this entire content is channeled towards getting people to form a static. Well...you don't need a static, you just need a group that's willing to stick together for a couple of hours or three, and work towards getting that content down together. Back in 2.1, I have pugged T5, and cleared it with a PF group too - but it took me 4 hours. I was fortunate enough to find a patient group, I really feel that's all you need to get past it. Everyone has mildly different playstyles, people are used to various strategies, so you'll need time for the makeshift team to gel too.

Nailed it. If the players you have found are good, but impatient then you aren't going to get a clear. With PF's its a bit easier to get around that, but I think that's a big reason why a DF is highly improbable. You can watch all the videos in the world, but without any practice you aren't going to clear t9. And when you are progressing, learning the final phase of t9 takes a long time because people get burnt out doing the first 7-8 minutes of the fight flawlessly, but then (for instance) missing the DPS needed to push Nael to final phase and having a Drake pop right before she goes into Favor. That destroys morale and makes progression seem like it's never going to happen with a pick-up.

SE put these turns in DF to make it more accessible, but it isn't. I really think SE should implement a system (just for DF coil turns) where the group can vote to extend the time. You are not going to learn t9 in 90 minutes. The group needs cohesion and a bit of time to learn each other's tendencies. When the duty boots you shortly after you are able to reach that level of symmetry, it is going to deter any person who is truly serious about completion away from ever trying for it in DF.

If you find 7 other people in the DF who understand mechanics up to a certain point, or are quick learners and you seem to be progressing, you should just be able to say:

/p Hey guys, we seem to be progressing well, but the time is at 10mins. Do y'all want to {Vote Extend} to refresh the timer and continue working on this? I think we can do it!!

I bet a lot more people with the patience you search for would attempt the fight via DF more often.