Why no further Echo on T9?

[Prototype909]

Right.. even if they get a t9 clear without a static anyone doing t10+ expects you to already be cleared and winning. so are these players supposed to forever buy wins to clear content until its nerfed horribly or can we give people a chance?

You either find/create a static or you deal with the drama/fallout that comes with not having one - this is simply how this game works at this point for most players. Almost every fight in this game (That matters at least) can be lost because of one person not knowing "the dance", it's not reasonable to expect people to dedicate the uncertain amount of time that comes with bringing in inexperienced people to a run. People search for the sure thing, there's nothing fundamentally "wrong" about exclusionary practices in party finder - these are people who are trying to optimize the time of people who are in the group and so long as people agree to those conditions when they join, it's fine. People should not get the benefit of plugging-in to a run with 7/8 people who know the fight, because almost nobody who initially did T9 (Or any fight) has gone into a fight with a group like that - even statics have to start at "0 experience".

Bottom line - If you care enough about endgame then make a static (Or your own party finders even) to learn and progress through the fight at your own rate, otherwise deal with inevitable exclusion for not knowing the fights. That's just the way the community has chosen to "shape" end-game formation.

[LunarEmerald]

Funny then how my group has T10 on farm but we usually have 4 meteors on T9 (admittedly it's most of the time only by a percentage or less). Practical evidence proves that your statement is wrong.

Then your dps (most likely melee) have an easier time in 10 than 9. Statement still stands. The required dps is nearly the same. There are "farm" parties for t9 with 5 dps that can't do 3 meteors. *shudders* Groups like that don't stand a chance in helk of beating fcob's dps checks.

[Deathscythe343]

There are "farm" parties for t9 with 5 dps that can't do 3 meteors. *shudders* Groups like that don't stand a chance in helk of beating fcob's dps checks.

I have to wonder if something like this is because of party makeup though. As I have not done T9 yet, I cannot give any first hand insight on it. However, a group made up of mostly casters might have trouble with this if there is a fair amount of moving. I suppose the dps loss from that may cause the situation you described.

[Coatl]

When I beat both T5 and T9 I felt accomplished, but I also felt lucky. I knew that it would not have been possible had I not found the seven other competent and patient players that also needed their clears. Before then a friend of mine who had already cleared T9 was trying to convince some players in his T9 farm Linkshell to help me and my friend out with one clear, but they really, really don't like running T9 with people who don't already have it on farm. Of course there are some helpful FCs that will help you meet them halfway, you just have to find them.

There are "farm" parties for t9 with 5 dps that can't do 3 meteors. *shudders* Groups like that don't stand a chance in helk of beating fcob's dps checks.

Ehhh there are some pretty bad players in the T9 farms that I've been in. DPS that are doing 100 less than me when I play bard, healers who are at 2k MP by the start of phase two. You really don't have to be a hotshot to farm T9, just don't get anyone else killed and you're golden pretty much.

As most have said already while T10 is mechanically simpler, it's a lot more punishing overall. Though I feel once we start overgearing the content by 10-20 item levels T10 will lose most of what made it hard, which was its tight gear/skill check.

[Mature]

A lot of big headed kids and pro wannabes around this thread.... They also forget when they started learning T5 + T9...... there are alot skilful people out there without static so dont underestimate their gameplay.

[Sanguisio]

imo the dps checks on t9 shouldnt be a problem providing you have the gear in the last few patches.

The main thing is the mechanics, e.g I know lots of grps will wipe to DBs because you cant just run to a ditch. You cant just up the echo bonus because in this fight it wont make a difference.

[razzgrizz3]

well op you got your echo
now surely you will clear t9
...
hahahahahaahahaha

[Its_Elodie]

I just recently downed T8 this last week. T5 was a pain though and I had problems finding a group that could do it. The echo was nice to be able to handle the dps checks and give the party a nice boost, but the dodging and positioning mechanics are there for a reason. These aren't meant to be easy fights, this is end game material. I haven't attempted T9 yet, but we are already getting a little spoiled with echo, if they take away all the mechanics of the fight there won't be anything left and it will just be an empty, fluff-filled win. I want some stuff to say a little difficult so I can use that as a bridge to know I'm capable of the next available raid content. Titan has been the same way for awhile now too. There may be an echo to help you, but you still need to be able to dodge, dodgy connections or not. Though I bet at some point they'll probably make the mechanics of T9 a little more forgiving to push people onwards in content, like they've been doing

[Illya]

Nailed it. If the players you have found are good, but impatient then you aren't going to get a clear. With PF's its a bit easier to get around that, but I think that's a big reason why a DF is highly improbable. You can watch all the videos in the world, but without any practice you aren't going to clear t9. And when you are progressing, learning the final phase of t9 takes a long time because people get burnt out doing the first 7-8 minutes of the fight flawlessly, but then (for instance) missing the DPS needed to push Nael to final phase and having a Drake pop right before she goes into Favor. That destroys morale and makes progression seem like it's never going to happen with a pick-up.

SE put these turns in DF to make it more accessible, but it isn't. I really think SE should implement a system (just for DF coil turns) where the group can vote to extend the time. You are not going to learn t9 in 90 minutes. The group needs cohesion and a bit of time to learn each other's tendencies. When the duty boots you shortly after you are able to reach that level of symmetry, it is going to deter any person who is truly serious about completion away from ever trying for it in DF.

If you find 7 other people in the DF who understand mechanics up to a certain point, or are quick learners and you seem to be progressing, you should just be able to say:

/p Hey guys, we seem to be progressing well, but the time is at 10mins. Do y'all want to {Vote Extend} to refresh the timer and continue working on this? I think we can do it!!

I bet a lot more people with the patience you search for would attempt the fight via DF more often.

The obvious solution to this isn't a Vote Extend, but Cross-Server Friends Lists like a certain other MMO.

Cross-Server Friends List would also go millions of miles towards relieving the current issue of all players cramming themselves onto Gilgamesh and Balmung just to find people to play with. If you Friends can be on any server, there's no reason to overcrowd 1 or 2 servers.

[gorezilla1]

The fact of the matter is that raids are not for everyone. There are hard-core and casual players. You can take offense to a form of labeling but it's just what it is. If you not willing to put in a certain level of effort and make some sacrifices (even if it is periodically meeting up with 7 other people), you would be considered casual. If that's the case, you'll have to wait until they ease the raids. Right now raids are made to test team work and efficiency. It difficult to do with a rotating cast of characters. That is why after they become repeatable, the mechanics are also made easier. Now you complain about feeling as though you're being forced into a static. Have no fear. In the expansion, they will be releasing normal mode raid with should satisfy your itch. If you would Like to satisfy the hard mode itch, I would at that point recommend a static.