Group doesn't have a BRD, how are melee supposed to dps?

[Kiokin]

I completely understand their(your) situation.
And I can see from your point of view that running out of TP suxx.

However, please consider that there is one Job that was nerfed in terms of damage to be just that: Your TP/Mana battery.

I ask again:
If such tools existed, why would you bring a bard over any other dps in the game?

The system works how it is.
The changes you suggest would break bard.
Maybe you have some other ideas for TP regen without bard, that could be another class that can support TP in some way or so (another goad-like spell)?

Are you forgetting Mage's Ballad, Foe Requiem, and the ability to do max dps, from range, while moving? They have plenty of benefits aside from being a TP battery. Why else would they brought on fights like T12/T13 where melee don't need Paeon?

[StouterTaru]

What are you supposed to do as a MNK to not run out of TP? The best you can do is drop Touch of Death, but that lowers your damage a lot, and doesn't completely fix the problem, as you will still run out of TP regardless. There is no "staggering" GCDs as a MNK, you must constantly attack to keep GL3.

You could always not spam the buttons while in the mild phases, and save TP for the phases that need to be blown through (like you do with CDs). You only have to do 3 skills every 12 seconds to keep GL3 up.

[Kiokin]

You could always not spam the buttons while in the mild phases, and save TP for the phases that need to be blown through (like you do with CDs). You only have to do 3 skills every 12 seconds to keep GL3 up.

Right, and completely ruin Twin Snakes uptime. Unless you suggest only using Twin Snakes and not True Strike, in which case you've created even bigger TP problems for yourself.

[StouterTaru]

Right, and completely ruin Twin Snakes uptime. Unless you suggest only using Twin Snakes and not True Strike, in which case you've created even bigger TP problems for yourself.

And if twin snakes wears before you can refresh it, that's the end of the world? So you don't have the buff up for your next Twin Snakes, but everything else. Loss of 10% damage on your weakest skill.

[Spoekes]

I have not forgottem the other songs.
On a side note, if you (MNK/NIN) should never run out of resources, why should I (WHM)?

Bards close to 100% uptime, however, does not at all make up for the damage they miss up.
I could be wrong about that, but I did look up parsers on the interwebs and they do not support your thinking.

Again, I guess most ppl can relate that having to throttle down is not as much fun as blowing $hit up, but your suggested way is not the solution.

[Dragoonicorn]

Replace it with something else that is more useful like crit or det. If you equip yourself properly you can be ILVL 130 and have 533 ACC and 378 Skill Speed. Your attacks will hit harder and slower allowing you to DPS "optimally" without stopping or slowing down for at least 8 minutes and your DPS will still be really high. All the while still having enough ACC for T13.

Boom

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O3QL

[Pluvia]

Replace it with something else that is more useful like crit or det. If you equip yourself properly you can be ILVL 130 and have 533 ACC and 378 Skill Speed. Your attacks will hit harder and slower allowing you to DPS "optimally" without stopping or slowing down for at least 8 minutes and your DPS will still be really high. All the while still having enough ACC for T13.

Boom

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O3QL

you could at least link a BIS that had the 135 wpn

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTU9
Still won't solve tp issues to go without holding back you have to have a bard now.

[Dragoonicorn]

Its not a BIS build.... And the point is by gearing myself this way and proper use of invigorate I can do FCOB without ever being TP starved and still doing over 480-500 DPS @ ilvl 117 for the entire length of the fight. My static has a Bard but he never has to peon me :P or sing at all for that matter unless there is an emergency need for MP. Otherwise he just foes req for our BLM and SMN.

So no you don't HAVE to have a bard.

[Izsha]

All they need to do is give nin, mnk, and drg something similar to pld, smn and war.

Pld gets swipe for tp, riot for mp, and a functional 0 tp skill to sprinkle in (flash). With those tools pld has options to throttle tp while still doing USEFUL actions.

Smn can replace fester with lower potency mp recovery and lay off ruin2 (learn fight like blm to reduce movement). Throttle still using USEFUL actions and improving skill at the fight. And I'm pretty sure garuda never runs outta mp /sarcasm.

War gets Wrath moves every 7/8 gcds they get 1 free, infuriate gives a free gcd, and berserk has forced 5 sec stop but is powerful, and can fall back on flash. War throttles tp by doing USEFUL actions.

Nin/mnk/drg: slow down brah. Just chillax mayne!

Blm: lulz. You newbs need to l2p ur jerbs.

People aren't begging for tp costs to be cut so they just never run out. We just want it aknowledged in the class design to control resources with useful actions, not just 'lol Stop doing things n00b'. No class should be dependant on another to function. They should have tools to manage themselves. Tools is not the same as just Nerfing tp costs. Tools are riot blade, swipe, Wrath moves, etc.

Random examples. Drg gets a jump that shares recast with dfd. Low damage, no gap close, restores 100 tp. Heck make elusive jump useful and give 50 tp but now your out of melee range and need to come back and combo with a gap closer. Make perfect balance give tp if you have gl3 already on instead of free forms. The whole idea is giving active choices to make tradeoffs of some type for tp.l instead of just put your controller down until your tp is better.

[SpookyGhost]

The more gear you have, the less useful a BRD becomes (at least in terms of Paeon). Push DPS fast enough that you aren't out of TP for long, or have a Goad rotation, and you're golden. However, BRD provides very unique utility in that you'll never have to worry about TP conservation and can just go balls to the walls - which can be extremely helpful for group DPS. I'd actually love to see parses of groups without Bards during progression vs parses with BRDs, especially in fights like T10 and T11. For some reason, I don't think the coordination required, on top of saving CDs, on top of slowing DPS by delaying your GCD, with the BRD being replaced with another DPS job would outweigh the benefit of bringing a BRD and having him play songs when necessary. I could very well be wrong, though I haven't seen any numbers posted in this thread to prove otherwise or even confirm what I think. I'd say it's an extremely good idea to bring a BRD for progression raiding, though. You could probably make it work without one, but it would take a loooot more effort for your group.