Group doesn't have a BRD, how are melee supposed to dps?

[TheodoreMcIntyre]

-

Well, I get that, and that's kinda the point.
That is the current solution to having classes run dry in prolonged fights because that's how the game works
But
The thing they're trying to get across is that it should be changed up so that they don't run dry without the aid of a BRD.
And for good reason, I think, because I'm sure you can tell from the several posts here, that anything less than 100% DPS is considered unacceptable by a high, almost unreasonable majority of the community.
They're just saying they don't think a BRD should be absolutely necessary to give 100% through a fight, and I am, frankly, inclined to agree. I feel like the role of a support class shouldn't be mandatory, it should just really nice to have to help alleviate some of the burden to make a fight (That is reasonably achievable without them) a little bit easier.

[xnonamex]

It's not all that bad. The only class that I know which really needs TP is MNK. For them it's rather hard. I play a DRG. If you time your Invigorates properly you don't get TP starved. Because in every fight you have moments where you have small pauses (even if not as big as SCoB). And if you are running low on tp, just slow down a bit. It is actually ok if you intentionally slow down a bit. It will lower your dps but at the same time tp actually regens quite fast. So you are back up to usable amounts (or new Invigorate) rather fast.

For example in t11 i usually run almost dry just before adds phase. However, i get the TP back while waiting for adds to come, tank getting aggro etc. We have a bard, runnin NIN, DRG and BLM. Bard really rarely sings peon. maybe once in every 10 tries for 5-10s.

[Pluvia]

It's not all that bad. The only class that I know which really needs TP is MNK. For them it's rather hard. I play a DRG. If you time your Invigorates properly you don't get TP starved. Because in every fight you have moments where you have small pauses (even if not as big as SCoB). And if you are running low on tp, just slow down a bit. It is actually ok if you intentionally slow down a bit. It will lower your dps but at the same time tp actually regens quite fast. So you are back up to usable amounts (or new Invigorate) rather fast.

For example in t11 i usually run almost dry just before adds phase. However, i get the TP back while waiting for adds to come, tank getting aggro etc. We have a bard, runnin NIN, DRG and BLM. Bard really rarely sings peon. maybe once in every 10 tries for 5-10s.

You can add ninja to the list of has tp issues just the same as monk. hell depending on the situation if they don't have to put the slashing debuff up they'll use tp faster then the monk

[RinchanNau]

Still not sure what the issue is. As a BRD I can't hit my maximum potential without every Goad and a 2nd BRD feeding me Paeon, but my life doesn't end just because I can't have 100% uptime. No need to continue with these tantrums. You learn to deal with it. Surely if I can deal with it on BRD you can do just fine on NIN. I mean, really. If you absolutely must feel that you have infinite resources just switch to BLM.

Perhaps they'll make changes in the expansion to make DPS jobs more self reliant with their TP/MP, but the current system is very workable and fun.

[Kiokin]

Still not sure what the issue is. As a BRD I can't hit my maximum potential without every Goad and a 2nd BRD feeding me Paeon, but my life doesn't end just because I can't have 100% uptime. No need to continue with these tantrums. You learn to deal with it. Surely if I can deal with it on BRD you can do just fine on NIN. I mean, really. If you absolutely must feel that you have infinite resources just switch to BLM.

Perhaps they'll make changes in the expansion to make DPS jobs more self reliant with their TP/MP, but the current system is very workable and fun.

No it isn't.

[Spoekes]

So when do you think a player should run out of resources?
Never?
Is this about removing resources in general?

There must be at least 1 reason to bring a bard over a more potent DPS. Not hard to understand really.

Want max potential? Run with optimal group setup. Easy as that.

[Kiokin]

So when do you think a player should run out of resources?.

When it's the fault of the player, and not the fault of poor design.

[Spoekes]

So what about the rest of my post?

And what is "the fault of the player" in the first place?
Beeing 100% dps-efficient? Not beeing 100% dps-efficient? ????

Is making dps breaks a fault or not?

Did you really finish this thought?

[Kiokin]

So what about the rest of my post?

And what is "the fault of the player" in the first place?
Beeing 100% dps-efficient? Not beeing 100% dps-efficient? ????

Is making dps breaks a fault or not?

Did you really finish this thought?

When players have the tools to not run out of TP. What are you supposed to do as a MNK to not run out of TP? The best you can do is drop Touch of Death, but that lowers your damage a lot, and doesn't completely fix the problem, as you will still run out of TP regardless. There is no "staggering" GCDs as a MNK, you must constantly attack to keep GL3. NIN are in a similar situation, except they can still use Ninjutsu, so they aren't totally screwed when out of TP. These classes do not have the tools to properly manage their TP in a way that makes it possible for running out to be their fault.

[Spoekes]

I completely understand their(your) situation.
And I can see from your point of view that running out of TP suxx.

However, please consider that there is one Job that was nerfed in terms of damage to be just that: Your TP/Mana battery.

I ask again:
If such tools existed, why would you bring a bard over any other dps in the game?

There is a Supporter role, and groups that take every possible Ability of the available jobs/roles should be rewarded.
I do agree that groups without the "perfect" setup should have a chance too, but reading through this thread it seems like it is possible without the perfect group setup.

The system works how it is.
The changes you suggest would break bard.
Maybe you have some other ideas for TP regen without bard, that could be another class that can support TP in some way or so (another goad-like spell)?