Real Money to Get In-Game Currency: Eternal Bond Edition

[FateAudax]

....you are saying that SE endorsed RMT isn't P2W

There isn't an argument to begin with nor even a debate. Anti cash-shop players had their minds set on the false fact that SE endorses RMT for P2W (since I am arguing that SE do not condone RMT item being traded for gils). These people aren't pointing their pitchforks at players who abuses this feature but instead are pointing their pitchforks at SE, why?

My reasoning is: This Eternal Bond for gils isn't Pay-2-Win. What they are doing here is piggybacking on the latest issue which is players selling bands for gils (similar to player selling carries for gils, which both gives advantage to the seller in terms of gils) in hopes to exaggerate the issue (calling it OMG SE endorsing Pay-2-Win) to call for an abolishment of cash shop. However, ultimately all I can read from their posts is "I want the cash shop items for free because I paid for subscription". Basically, entitlement.

[TurnBased]

Personally, I'm starting to accept the cash shop as a necessary evil. It just makes an otherwise perfect game flawed. But the tradeable bracelets as the devs have acknowledged urgently need to be patched. Selling carries is ok as all transactions are done in-game.

[FateAudax]

Personally, I'm starting to accept the cash shop as a necessary evil. It just makes an otherwise perfect game flawed. But the tradeable bracelets as the devs have acknowledged urgently need to be patched. Selling carries is ok as all transactions are done in-game.

Yes, I do agree with you that SE needs to patch the tradable bracelet. I feel sorry for people who might sincerely want to gift it to their partners but this bracelet topic is getting out of hand. Exaggerated posts of SE endorsing Pay-2-Win are a good example. Pitchforks should be pointed to the players selling and buying them.

[Kyomagi]

there is an easy fix for that. Just paypal your partner the 10 bucks if you want to gift it to them

[Neira]

Personally, I'm starting to accept the cash shop as a necessary evil. It just makes an otherwise perfect game flawed. But the tradeable bracelets as the devs have acknowledged urgently need to be patched. Selling carries is ok as all transactions are done in-game.

Why? Because you run the risk of not being one of the best on your server? Someone with more real life money than time might come close to being equal to or better than your i115ish WHM? Just guessing, didn't bother calculating.

Why is it okay to sell exclusive content as long as it doesn't interfere with YOUR way of enjoying the game? Do you think everyone cares about dps, clears, or iLvl? You keep telling people to be vocal and you keep posting your complaints, repeatedly, and I'm here to tell you, repeatedly, I'm -happy- the cash shop has items that can be traded for gil. I hope everything on the cash shop becomes tradable, and everything in the future as well.

[Neira]

Hardcore players aren't the only ones in this game, in fact, I'm pretty sure they're the minority. A lot of us would rather have our minions to show off, our cute outfits, our adorable emotes, and just talk and have fun. Well, your complaint about people having access to YOUR content with money is valid, but the cash shop gives people EXCLUSIVE access to MY content, too. Just imagine how you would feel if the cash shop had untradeable/unique i130 gear with different stats than the current but looked the same, then you will know how a lot of casuals feel about the initial cash shop items.

[Magis]

This is worth the extra post. Upvote this, because this is in fact fun.

So, with that, and look upwards for my responses please, let me pose a question. for the amount of money they would have to pay for this advantage (assuming 1 mil or less for the bracelets), and assuming this goes towards keeping ffxiv alive, which was mentioned by Yoshi during the EU Fanfest, is the advantage really worth it? if someone pays for 500 mil (100 mil for each set of win gear plus 100 mil for materia plus 100 mil for housing, materials, minions, and such) to "win" all these things (keep in mind, that is Ten Thousand Dollars USD (or, subs for a year for 84 people)), are they worth enough to the continued running of the game that they would deserve it?
Also, you cannot use the answer "on principal", or "the morals of it". An MMO is a business, morals and principals have no dominion here.

Your statement of "keeping FFXIV alive" is kinda false since Yoshi himself early on said that 500k users is what was needed to keep the game going and developing. At this point they have 2mil+ players, so I doubt there is an issue of "keeping the game alive". Money thrown into here is to pay the shareholders, which has no bearing on us the players. I was throwing examples at how players get an advantage, I didn't say they'd purchase every single one of the above. You can fully meld a gathering or craft gear piece on my server for about 1.2-2million gil which is what, $20? $40?. BTW, now that money is thrown around like nothing (not just by a single player, but anyone who joins in on this), the economy becomes inflated as others farm more cash to afford the higher prices, injecting even more money into the economy. Now you gotta do RMT to afford anything in the economy causing a feedback loop. This is the same principle why FFXI had such a wrecked economy, except in that case it was gil sellers doing the farming rather than the players.

Morals has everything to do with it, if you keep pushing... people will leave. It's not going to be one big thing that causes the mass exodus (thought it has happened like with Star Wars Galaxies), it will be a slow build up of crap till a straw breaks the camel's back. After watching the forums for the last year and a bit, I've seen many people leave (that I'd see often post or even argue with), usually due to a culmination of problems, not "just one thing".

There isn't an argument to begin with nor even a debate. Anti cash-shop players had their minds set on the false fact that SE endorses RMT for P2W (since I am arguing that SE do not condone RMT item being traded for gils). These people aren't pointing their pitchforks at players who abuses this feature but instead are pointing their pitchforks at SE, why?

My reasoning is: This Eternal Bond for gils isn't Pay-2-Win. What they are doing here is piggybacking on the latest issue which is players selling bands for gils (similar to player selling carries for gils, which both gives advantage to the seller in terms of gils) in hopes to exaggerate the issue (calling it OMG SE endorsing Pay-2-Win) to call for an abolishment of cash shop. However, ultimately all I can read from their posts is "I want the cash shop items for free because I paid for subscription". Basically, entitlement.

Well, you are changing your argument here. I was arguing with you on the fact you said:

Yes, so what's the concern then? What advantage does the seller have? More gils than you?

Which with Tocsin at least we agreed yes, it does give you an advantage in many different ways (though I disagree on if it's a good thing). So if you want to talk about whether the introduction of SE allowed (I guess endorsed was too strong allowed) RMT was on purpose or not, sure we can talk about that. I'd say that if it was so strongly opposed, then we wouldn't get a weak response from a CM going "don't do it, but we won't really do anything if you do" when obviously players are going to take advantage of it anyway. Reap the benefits while pretending to be against it. It's good that players argue NOW and avoid this being a thing in the future, rather than it being introduced and stuck in the game forever.

Now to your second part, you go back to the argument of "is selling Eternal Bond P2W?". As I showed with my last posts, yes it is P2W, even if SE endorses it or not. It gives advantages to players who sell EB rings vs those who just play within the confines of the game. You are paying to advance your character, which in MMO is the goal (there is no end to win)... thus "winning".

Oh yeah, and your last part about entitlement. What a bastardization of the word. No one is asking for the item to be given to us for free. We want it put into the game as content, and have to work to get it (since we pay a subscription already to fund these endeavors). Heck some people who want this may not even get the item due to RNG or w.e, but at least they got the chance. If you want "entitlement" (not really, but the words is thrown around here like nothing), how about paying pennies to have an item instantly appear in your inventory with no work involved at all. Why even play the game at that point? Just print out some 3d model screenshots of the item lol.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

. . . we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. . .

Hah! I found this thread! A RL friend of mine told me about it, and the design change could be VERY easy. Just make it so that when you buy it, your name appears on the item the same way as if it were crafted. Next step, make it so that you can only use the item if you ordered it, or if you are marrying the person whose name is on it your wristlet. #MysterySolved.

[Magis]

Hah! I found this thread! A RL friend of mine told me about it, and the design change could be VERY easy. Just make it so that when you buy it, your name appears on the item the same way as if it were crafted. Next step, make it so that you can only use the item if you ordered it, or if you are marrying the person whose name is on it your wristlet. #MysterySolved.

You make it sound simple, but this means things like adding new table columns to the item database (assuming it's SQL), adding this information to the network packet layout, adding scripts for the removal, adding, and updating of this information, not just between the game but also the Mogstation (two teams now involved), and bug testing all this so it doesn't blow up in your face. This is probably why they'd rather have it exist than hotfix it.

[Nashred]

Personally, I'm starting to accept the cash shop as a necessary evil. It just makes an otherwise perfect game flawed. But the tradeable bracelets as the devs have acknowledged urgently need to be patched. Selling carries is ok as all transactions are done in-game.

Well that's the whole thing.. The cash shop has now cast a dark cloud over the game.. Now everything that comes out people are going to wonder if it is going in the cash shop.. Look at the missing Christmas tree for the starlight celebration and a whole thread on if it is going in the cash shop since it is missing. It has split the user base and created so much negativity it is going to scare new players from joining.