Stoneskin II

[RaquelleAvarosa]

So you want Succor for one fight? Pretty sure SCH getting AoE stoneskin out of battle isn't the equivalent of that in terms of usefulness but if you want to pretend that it is..

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

sounds awfully familiar don't you think?

[SulwynCaliope]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

sounds awfully familiar don't you think?

*claps* Please explain more how it justifies giving you OUR ONE AND ONLY AOE HEAL. I'd be willing to give you a nerfed version if there were more fights that dealt AoE damage within 20 seconds of the battle starting. I've never ever said that I wouldn't be willing. I'm unwilling to give you succor in the current state of the game because it serves you NO PURPOSE AT ALL. Is AoE stoneskin for SCH the same in the sense that we benefit none at all? Definitely not. Please get back to the topic on hand and stop trying to derail it.

[RaquelleAvarosa]

*claps* Please explain more how it justifies giving you OUR ONE AND ONLY AOE HEAL. I'd be willing to give you a nerfed version if there were more fights that dealt AoE damage within 20 seconds of the battle starting. I've never ever said that I wouldn't be willing. I'm unwilling to give you succor in the current state of the game because it serves you NO PURPOSE AT ALL. Is AoE stoneskin for SCH the same in the sense that we benefit none at all? Definitely not. Please get back to the topic on hand and stop trying to derail it.

nah, I merely found your assertion (in caps) that you do not know of any fights that DPS takes enough damage to cancel out a succor within 20s fascinating.

Do you even know how long succor lasts? 30 SECONDS. I don't know ANY FIGHT where enough DPS take damage within 20 seconds

[SulwynCaliope]

nah, I merely found your assertion (in caps) that you do not know of any fights that DPS takes enough damage to cancel out a succor within 30s fascinating.

And that somehow contributed to the discussion? :/ I feel like you've just wasted my time. X.X;

While I understand the reasoning behind wanting it. I'm not upset that SCH don't get this as a cross-class skill. It along with the +8% on top of the already 10%/hp damage mitigation, helps separate the two classes. Also, if I would have to guess, I would bet the reason this isn't a cross-class skill has more to do with giving jobs more abilities than other jobs. I hope that makes sense. It would be like giving SMN/SCH another summon (kinda).

I don't understand how AoE stoneskin makes WHM more special than SCH. :/ "Yay I can save 10 seconds during buff period over my SCH partners". That makes WHMs unique and special? Really??? It's not your superior AoE healing, regen, benediction etc That parties are bringing you to fights for? Do you guys think so little of the rest of your skills that you can't just throw SCHs a small bone in the form of a QUALITY OF LIFE change.

well you aren't contributing to the discussions by challenging my understanding of what succor is and how long it lasts and going on to comment in CAPS that you do not know of ANY FIGHT that lasts for 20s.

look, if you wanna launch an ad hominem attack and attack my credibility, at least get your facts right.



back to topic, what exactly is it in your initial comment above that you think contributes to the discussion?

Can't respond in a new post due to daily post limitations. SMH SE

Anyway, you and other WHMs brought succor into the discussion in the first place. I said before and will say it again, succor is not the equivalent of SSII. That's why WHMs shouldn't be asking for it and that's how my comment contributed to the discussion. Maybe if WHMs would stop bringing up succor into the discussion, I could stop talking about it too?\

SS is not an essential skill for SCH, if it is that essential, it'd have been one of the skills by default and not requiring cross-classing and since it isn't an essential skill native to the job itself, why is there even an argument to demand that SCHs have SS2?

Son of a... This is getting annoying.

Because we use it anyway to prebuff the party? If it's that non essential, then maybe we shouldn't even be able to cross class SS. The truth is that we do use it to prebuff the party because SS gave us the skill in the first place. Since it's there, I'm damn well going to use it. The argument for not giving SCHs SSII is that we should take longer to prebuff a party than a WHM. That's all there is too it. We're asking for a convenience not for your lunch money.

I feel like we're just running in circles here with me just repeating myself. I've stated many times why I feel like SCHs should get SSII. Can you please name for me some good reasons, besides coding issues, why SCHs do not deserve the same convenience that WHMs now enjoy?

so if SS2 is a trait now, it would've been acceptable to you? you have been inflating the importance of SCHs literally needing SS2 but you've failed to actually state any compelling reasons why.

I contend that it should've been implemented as a passive part of SS and that there should be a trigger which senses whether you are in or out of battle and adjusts accordingly. Also, please give me a good reason why WHMs NEEDED SSII. There's no compelling reason either besides convenience. I'm asking for the same thing for the same reason.

[RaquelleAvarosa]

And that somehow contributed to the discussion? :/ I feel like you've just wasted my time. X.X;

well you aren't contributing to the discussions by challenging my understanding of what succor is and how long it lasts and going on to comment in CAPS that you do not know of ANY FIGHT that DPS gets hit within 20s from the start of the fight.

look, if you wanna launch an ad hominem attack and attack my credibility, at least get your facts right.

Do you even know how long succor lasts? 30 SECONDS. I don't know ANY FIGHT where enough DPS take damage within 20 seconds of the fight beginning (Because let's be honest, it takes 10 seconds for the tank to see succor has gone down and then to actually pull the boss) for succor to even be worth it.

back to topic, what exactly is it in your initial comment above that you think contributes to the discussion?

[RaquelleAvarosa]

Anyway, you and other WHMs brought succor into the discussion in the first place. I said before and will say it again, succor is not the equivalent of SSII. That's why WHMs shouldn't be asking for it and that's how my comment contributed to the discussion. Maybe if WHMs would stop bringing up succor into the discussion, I could stop talking about it too?

SS is not an essential skill for SCH, if it is that essential, it'd have been one of the skills by default and not requiring cross-classing and since it isn't an essential skill native to the job itself, why is there even an argument to demand that SCHs have SS2?

[RaquelleAvarosa]

Son of a... This is getting annoying.

Because we use it anyway to prebuff the party? If it's that non essential, then maybe we shouldn't even be able to cross class SS. The truth is that we do use it to prebuff the party because SS gave us the skill in the first place. Since it's there, I'm damn well going to use it. The argument for not giving SCHs SSII is that we should take longer to prebuff a party than a WHM. That's all there is too it. We're asking for a convenience not for your lunch money.

so if SS2 is a trait now, would it have been acceptable to you? you have been inflating the importance of SCHs literally needing SS2 but you've failed to actually state any compelling reasons why.

I feel like we're just running in circles here with me just repeating myself. I've stated many times why I feel like SCHs should get SSII. Can you please name for me some good reasons, besides coding issues, why SCHs do not deserve the same convenience that WHMs now enjoy?

could you then name for me some good reasons, besides convenience, why you think SCHs need to have SS2 as a new cross-classable skill?

[Rock_Biter]

While I didn't mean to put you on the defensive, I wasn't saying WHM is more/less special than SCH in any way. Also, without myself getting too defensive, on what appears to be personal attacks, I enjoy and play all jobs, and enjoy WHM and SCH equally. Just it creates more of a differentiation between the two. I was merely attempting to point out a possible reasoning for the team not allowing a cross-class version of this skill. As things stand now, instead of one job with SSII, there would be three, and on top of that you would need to add something to WHM attributes to allow for two versions of SSII; One for 10% and one for 18%. Some jobs (and the irony is not lost on me in regards to this post) would feel this to be unfair, and may throw a "fit". It being unfair and jobs "revolting", is the same reasoning they didn't add a Leviathan-egi to SMN back when that content was added. I can think of on a few reasons for adding the new SSII skill now instead of waiting for expansion, but goes beyond this post. Besides, it's very possible SSII or something even better will very likely see it's way onto SCH's hotbars in the near future.

[RaquelleAvarosa]

I contend that it should've been implemented as a passive part of SS and that there should be a trigger which senses whether you are in or out of battle and adjusts accordingly. Also, please give me a good reason why WHMs NEEDED SSII. There's no compelling reason either besides convenience. I'm asking for the same thing for the same reason.

well I can give you one good reason why

because it is essential to the WHM job, just like Adloquium and Succor is, for SCHs.

[Rock_Biter]

While I understand the reasoning behind wanting it. I'm not upset that SCH don't get this as a cross-class skill. It along with the +8% on top of the already 10%/hp damage mitigation, helps separate the two classes. Also, if I would have to guess, I would bet the reason this isn't a cross-class skill has more to do with giving jobs more abilities than other jobs. I hope that makes sense. It would be like giving SMN/SCH another summon (kinda).