The Monk Temple Reborn

[Ricdeau]

wow i really like your set! Is this the widely accepted MNK BiS or something you came up with personally? This is the one i came up with before seeing yours.

My set adds: +51 Crit, +3 Speed
My set looses: +32 DET, -6 Acc

Now looking at both sets its pretty clear that 32 Det is far more valuable than tha 51 Crit.

I actually haven't seen much conversation between monks on the new BiS. I played around with different stats to see what I could come up with. I felt this was the best balanced, and also ends up being the BiS the Ariyala solver will give you if you put in 535 acc and include food buffs. I kept trying to get something with ~400 skill speed without impacting other stats too much, but I just couldn't get something I liked.

Edit: What I'd really like to see is someone rework the stat weights with i130 in mind so we can readjust the values to better reflect the new secondary stats allocations that are available to us. The stats weights we're using right now are somewhat out of date, but still valid enough to be a good guideline, but some fine tuning needs to be done since stat allocations have increased. Unfortunately my math skills have dwindled over the years I'm no longer near as good as I once was. So I generally just try to feed the current math whizzes raw parse data when they need it.

[PROBOUND]

I kept trying to get something with ~400 skill speed without impacting other stats too much, but I just couldn't get something I liked.

I made a small adjustment to your set and was able to squeeze out +21 Crit +9 acc while loosing -29 Speed. Putting us well above (547) Rear/Flank cap (frontal cap for T13 adds maybe?) but also lowering our speed to 356. Is this too slow? (Obsessed with my Magic Numbers lol)

CRIT: 477
DET: 411
ACC: 547
Speed: 356

Adjusted Set

Which brings up my next question: How slow can a MNK go?

[treuhavik]

How much DPS should I be getting out of my i113 MNK?

On a dummy with out food, party or pots, I'm around 465. I just can't shake the feeling that I'm doing something wrong when my i111 DRG is putting out 460 (subbed Nexus for Diamond Spear in calculator) and my i113 NIN is doing 470.

I'm opening with PB - Demo - B4B - Snap - IR - Snap - Steel/Howling - DK/TS - Steel/Howling - DK/TS and following up with a refresh to Demo before using ToD.

Any suggestions or validation would be greatly appreciated.


EDIT: Gear Weights - MNK = 389.442, DRG = 401.814, NIN = 394.55. Should I just chalk it up to that and better optimize my MNK?

[Ricdeau]

How much DPS should I be getting out of my i113 MNK?

On a dummy with out food, party or pots, I'm around 465. I just can't shake the feeling that I'm doing something wrong when my i111 DRG is putting out 460 (subbed Nexus for Diamond Spear in calculator) and my i113 NIN is doing 470.

I'm opening with PB - Demo - B4B - Snap - IR - Snap - Steel/Howling - DK/TS - Steel/Howling - DK/TS and following up with a refresh to Demo before using ToD.

Any suggestions or validation would be greatly appreciated.


EDIT: Gear Weights - MNK = 389.442, DRG = 401.814, NIN = 394.55. Should I just chalk it up to that and better optimize my MNK?

At your gear level with i115 weapon I was doing 490-500 depending on crit RNG over a ~4:20 parse (two invigorates until right when I run dry). I'll reiterate again the stat weights for monk were pre 2.4 and need to be updated, but it shouldn't result in any major shift. Ninja definitely appears pretty optimized since it was released well after the launch jobs (the class as a whole is very nicely designed for the most part), but I don't think the stat weights have been accurately accounted for just yet. Dragoons keep pretty on top of updating weights and theorycrafting. We've lost some of our major theorycrafters unfortunately so our weight info is not maintained as well.

[treuhavik]

At your gear level with i115 weapon I was doing 490-500 depending on crit RNG over a ~4:20 parse (two invigorates until right when I run dry).

Interesting... I've been cutting all my parses to about 3:30. Could that have something to do with it? Realistically, I should be parsing it longer since I'll be using it on high up-time fights. I'll try for Diamond Claws this afternoon and see if I can match your numbers. Were you using part buff, food or pots in those encounters?

[Ricdeau]

Interesting... I've been cutting all my parses to about 3:30. Could that have something to do with it? Realistically, I should be parsing it longer since I'll be using it on high up-time fights. I'll try for Diamond Claws this afternoon and see if I can match your numbers.

Crit RNG has a big impact on a dummy parse overall, but it has a really big impact on a short monk parse. I've had parses where I didn't reach my maximum DPS until around 2:30 seconds into the parse. The longer you can parse without running out of TP the more you should see a DPS trend since you have a greater number of attacks that are being averaged.

Even with 4:20-4:30 minute parses I see crit percentages vary wildly (in the 10-12% variations on the high end which is a LOT for that length of time and many parses I run throughout a week ). Crit is a bit more RNG in this game than most since a lot of MMOs adopt systems where procs and percentages are normalized to give a more stable rate. This game doesn't seem to do that from a personal observation. Anyway more attacks in the averaged pool will give you a more accurate reading on where you're likely to fall in an actual raid fight.

[treuhavik]

Crit RNG has a big impact on a dummy parse overall, but it has a really big impact on a short monk parse. I've had parses where I didn't reach my maximum DPS until around 2:30 seconds into the parse. The longer you can parse without running out of TP the more you should see a DPS trend since you have a greater number of attacks that are being averaged.

That was my train of thought; the longer the parse the more accurate the read. But that only leads me further to believe that it's less my gear and more my execution, which is troubling lol.

[whiskeybravo]

I'm opening with PB - Demo - B4B - Snap - IR - Snap - Steel/Howling - DK/TS - Steel/Howling - DK/TS and following up with a refresh to Demo before using ToD.

In bold.. Maybe a typo? You've just applied DK/TS prior to PB fallin off, no need to re-apply it at that point, use BS > True then Demo. One thing I started figuring out after a while was I was doing twin too many times because I was at the flank, I've really tried to re-enforce twin/true rotation because true out of position is 10 more potency then in-position twin. Also make sure you aren't clipping your dots too early (and conversely letting them fall off for too long). Still seem to be doing pretty good, probably just a couple minor things to push it further.

[treuhavik]

In bold.. Maybe a typo?

Sorry, "DK/TS" was meant as using either Twin Snakes or Dragon Kick, not both.

One thing I started figuring out after a while was I was doing twin too many times because I was at the flank, I've really tried to re-enforce twin/true rotation because true out of position is 10 more potency then in-position twin. Also make sure you aren't clipping your dots too early (and conversely letting them fall off for too long). Still seem to be doing pretty good, probably just a couple minor things to push it further.

I've got all my buffs and enemy debuffs centralized at upper-mid screen so I've been doing pretty good keeping track and swapping attacks on the fly. Though, I will admit to clipping, DoTs especially, if I have the chance when they're 5 seconds or under, as I don't want to get caught with them down for more than 3s.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PB > Snap > B4B > Snap > IR > Demolish > DK > Twin > PB Drops here ToD > Bootshine > True > Snap > Bootshine > True > Demolish

Edit: This should give you a strong boost on your initial Demolish, but it takes longer to get ToD up. Maybe just put ToD at the beginning but keep Demolish where it is.

I'm going to try this one out today. This way I can get a fully buffed ToD up instead of refreshing Demo after PB. It should look something like this;

Mine Before: PB > Demo > B4B > Snap > IR > Snap > Steel > DK > Howling > Twin - {End PB} - > Boot > True > Demo > ToD
Mine After: PB > Snap > B4B > Snap > IR > Demo > Steel > DK > Howling > Twin - {End PB} - > ToD > Boot > True > Demo

Two buffed DoTs has to be better than two unbuffed, right?

[PROBOUND]

Mine Before: PB > Demo > B4B > Snap > IR > Snap > Steel > DK > Howling > Twin - {End PB} - > Boot > True > Demo > ToD
Mine After: PB > Snap > B4B > Snap > IR > Demo > Steel > DK > Howling > Twin - {End PB} - > ToD > Boot > True > Demo

Two buffed DoTs has to be better than two unbuffed, right?

Do we have any conclusive numbers as to weather or not Ossom's is the best PB opener? I've always done an unbuffed ToD before PB so im wondering if this one above provides a larger initial burst.

Shoulder > ToD > PB > Demo > Snap > Snap > Twin > Dragon - {End PB} - > BfB > Boot > Howling > IR > Steel > True > Xpot > Demo > ToD > Dragon

Is this rotation considered sub optimal? From the looks of it the only unbuffed Dots are the initial ToD and the Demo during PB but the ones after PB ends are fully buffed with pot.