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  1. #1
    Player
    Lavieh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    304
    Character
    Ellunavi Sevald
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 80

    We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

    Since SE has nerfed my ability to post long posts:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...mns_need_help/

    This games balance in DPS has come full circle now. For those who have denied it or for those afraid to admit it, SMN is currently the weakest single target DPS (Not including BRD). This is absolutely undeniable and it is hard to argue with it. Before you post a reply telling me that SMN is right up there with MNK / DRG and NIN or SMN is equal to BLM. Please read what I have to say first. The first part of this post is just anecdotal, just to fill you guys in on the progress that SMN has seen since the beginning of the game( You can skip this paragraph if you want) :

    I played back in 1.0 and got every class to 50 so when ARR came out there was only one new class for me to play, Arcanist. I picked up my first book and started playing the class exclusively for the first part of 2.0. Parsers were extremely inaccurate at this point and no one really knew a sense of balance. BRD’s were erroneously strong and SMN’s were considered to be the weakest DPS by the community. I knew this wasn’t true. I spent hours and times perfecting how I would play my class, I put numbers on papers and parsed vs. other people. Every time I did a dungeon as SMN vs any other DPS class things just died faster, I knew SMN was the strongest DPS class in the game – But no one believed me. People used to argue with me all the time telling me that they were weak. Then something happened in Patch 2.1 – SE Removed Thunder from SMN’s cross class. This was a direct 12% Nerf to SMN’s damage, a whole DoT that could be contagioned was removed and the community was extremely confused as to why SMN was getting such a huge hit then SE said it “Summoner is still the top DPS class in the game” (excuse the misquote). This Mantra, that SMN is top DPS has not left the community ever. On the same Patch both MNK and DRG received significant Buffs. This was the start. MNK was the top DPS this patch, but it hadn’t yet been fully drawn out. Keep going down the line to Patch 2.3 where BLM’s received a buff and this was when they became a much stronger DPS than SMN. On Average they would destroy a SMN in a parse. Then DRG got a few buffs in 2.4 and Ninja was released. Ninja was obviously much stronger than SMN and DRG in perfect conditions was a little bit stronger as well( Though there never existed perfect conditions for DRG). Now here we are, Patch 2.45. DRG’s have been Buffed to match the level on MNK, NIN and BLM and well SMNs? Left in the dust.

    Now of course there are a lot of other things that make SMN even weaker in comparison to their other DPS counter-parts:

    1. Mana Management – Every Job has to deal with some sort of resource management but no Job is as severally effected by it as SMN. Resources haven’t really been all that important until we arrived at 2.4 where almost every coil fight involved a lot of uptime. All the DPS were running out of TP and SMN was running out of Mana, the only difference is that ONLY the SMN was typically running out of mana while every melee in your party was burnt on TP this made using Paeon a lot more efficient than using Ballad for a single DPS. It became a lot more efficient for SMN’s to use Energy drain to upkeep their mana which was another big dps loss.

    2. Itemization - This is HUGE, where secondary stats can have a huge impact on your DPS SMN loses out big time. Spell speed for SMN is among the worst stat in the game for any class, even worse than Parry is for tanks( That is saying a lot). The returns on every point of spell speed is extremely depressing but for some reason SE keeps feeding it to SMNs. Looking at just mere weapons alone : Viel of Wiyu, HA Book, Ironworks Book, DW Book - All of them have Spell speed on it! Why would SE even think this would be a good idea? The hardest weapon in the game to get has Spell speed on it, a dead stat, a stat that only effects how fast your ruins go out and does nothing but cause you to lose more mana. What were you thinking SE? Casting gear this patch is typically a tossup between choosing from Accuracy of Spell speed the amount of Det and Critical in a SMN’s best in slot is extremely low. This problem is so real and the impact can be felt.

    3. Accuracy – This isn’t as big as the other two but SMN requires more accuracy than its counterpart caster. Pets need to be able to hit from the flank otherwise they lose out on a lot of DPS having to aim for more accuracy also hurts what secondary stats a smn can allocate.

    Just to recap (TL;DR) :

    Not including resources or itemization SMN is the weakest DPS class in the game (Not including BRD as they are DPS/Support and will easily contribute more dps to the raid than any other class in the game). I feel like people are going to want to argue with me on this – But it’s true. Given equal stats and equal gear I promise you that SMN will fall short 30 or so DPS from the other main DPS Classes

    Mana issues make the spread even bigger, as battles get longer and more drawn out the bigger the gap that SMNs DPS will have in comparison to other classes.

    Itemization effects SMN’s a lot. As we draw closer to i130 we will see that SMN’s will continue to fall behind in dps.

    I have been waiting a very long time to post this, I felt the decline of SMN’s the moment that BLM got overbuffed. I kept my mouth closed because I believed that SE could see balance and would make the appropriate decisions to keep SMN up to date, but it never happened. Actually the opposite happened the gear in 2.4 was a kick in the face to all those who strived hard to play SMN. We have found ways to increase our DPS to stay competitive, from Auto-attacking to using Ifrit (a very risky move in some fights). We have spent countless amounts of gil on Poison pots just to squeeze in a few extra Deeps. But it has to stop somewhere, We have to make a stand. DRGs got buffed because they cried out for it, Nin’s got nerfed because people cried out for it, same thing happened to MNK and BLM buffs. If we don’t say something then us SMN’s will forever be weaker than everyone else.

    I know a lot of SMN’s may want to argue with me, I’m not saying you guys are bad. I’ve seen some excellent SMN’s play and just flat out lose in DPS to average MNKs or to average BLMs. This can’t continue happening –SMN NEEDS A BUFF.

    I am no game designer, and while I have thoughts and ideals of my own as to how I would buff SMN I think it would devalue what I’m trying to say here in the main post. SMN’s or people who don’t even play SMNs please help us out, make it known that we are weaker and make it known that SE has to do something about it.

     Just a small note, In 2.4 I switched mostly out of discontent with the path SE had laid out for SMN but also because It was something new. My love for SMN is still very real and my desire to see them as a competitive DPS is very strong.
    (85)
    Last edited by Lavieh; 01-12-2015 at 01:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Prototype909's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    532
    Character
    Haken Browning
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    SE's response - Switch to MNK
    (9)

  3. #3
    Player
    Rankina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    51
    Character
    Kina Vasi
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    SEpls. Give Lavi his summoner back :C
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Wizhard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    239
    Character
    Wizhard Felfury
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype909 View Post
    SE's response - Switch to DRG
    FTFY
    /10char
    (5)

  5. #5
    Player
    Sleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,563
    Character
    Philia Felice
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    I have an i135 SMN. It's just as bad now as it was at i115; fights are just shorter which lessens the MP issue (but it's still there fullswing), that's all. SMN is in a terrible spot.
    (15)

  6. #6
    Player
    Jacost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    316
    Character
    Jeyrr Stenn
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Lowering the MP cost of Ruin would solve half the SMN's problems in a stroke.
    (6)

  7. #7
    Player
    ilmynasa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    37
    Character
    Corda Syu
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    Mana issue, egis' accuracy problem (and food buff effect on egis), and spell speed overflow.

    I have never felt so disappointed in any patch note than 2.45, since for the longest time smn have been complaining and SE has made no effort to fix it.
    I shouldn't be melee acc capped (without food too), hugging bosses' butts for auto-attacks as a caster class. Might as well make a new lv55 skill called book smack with 300 potency on a 5min CD.
    (25)

  8. #8
    Player
    Bigcat9715's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    490
    Character
    Nebulon Gumball
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavieh View Post
    Since SE has nerfed my ability to post long posts:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...mns_need_help/

    If you want to read everything I wrote out.






    ^^^ This is essentially a TL;DR Version.
    Tbh I think SE is just going to rework SMN. Think about it everyone been complaining about SMN for a long ass time now and SE haven't done anything about it. SE mind set might be to change SMN in some way and instead of making a bunch of little small patches. They may make one big patch thats cause SMN to be different from the SMN we know now. But they won't release it until the expansion. Just my theory tho, so take it as a grain of salt.
    (11)

  9. #9
    Player
    Parodine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,044
    Character
    Cullen Dionysion
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacost View Post
    Lowering the MP cost of Ruin would solve half the SMN's problems in a stroke.
    Indeed. Reading that reddit thread, giving SMNs back Thunder and lowering Ruin's MP cost seem to be relatively easy fixes. And throwing them a bone with the poetics trash too.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    Atomnium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    331
    Character
    Flare Oskopnir
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by ilmynasa View Post
    Mana issue, egis' accuracy problem (and food buff effect on egis), and spell speed overflow.

    I have never felt so disappointed in any patch note than 2.45, since for the longest time smn have been complaining and SE has made no effort to fix it.
    I shouldn't be melee acc capped (without food too), hugging bosses' butts for auto-attacks as a caster class. Might as well make a new lv55 skill called book smack with 300 potency on a 5min CD.
    My feeling as well, the mana management is just horrible in fcob that I have to actually nerf myself if I feel the will to Ruin II to not loose dps on movements, had to find tricks to compensate this but it's not always working.
    I'm not getting fun anymore to play smn lately because of the said reasons and I'm not even talking about how hard is to handle the huge adds phase in turn 13 without totally exploding my mps, meanwhile the blms army is like "infinite mps" "infinite dps" "infinite and huge aoe damages" they don't have anything to worry about and just zerg without thinking at what is going to happen next.

    I loved smn job and I'm playing it since 2.0 but I will likely change to the gun job (if it is a dps) at 3.0, because... I'm tired.
    (7)

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