Dragoon: top dps and easiest melee class by far ?

[SpookyGhost]

Really ? The most demanding ? How so ? You still had only 2 positionnals to do. Assuming your tank wasn't a moron, it was a far cry from what mnk had to deal with (positionnals on all non dots attacks). If your tank was a moron, well, not "harder", you were just screwed, but you will always be anyway with a bad tank.

In terms of a complete stand still fight:

MNK > DRG > NIN

MNK has the most positionals, but honestly it works like any other job where things just flow once you play it enough. DRG has a long rotation but you eventually get to the point where you don't even need to think about it. The differences are pretty minor, the main thing is that MNK has to move a lot so that puts it slightly ahead of DRG. DRG and MNK even out by the long rotation vs Mudras (same amount of muscle memory required), but DRG still has 2 positionals he needs to hit for max DPS so DRG pulls ahead by a hair.

On a random boss spinning fight/bad tank scenario:

MNK > DRG > NIN

Before it would be DRG > MNK, but now that positionals aren't required and DRGs only suffer a minor DPS loss from not hitting them, MNK remains harder due to constant positional loss. NIN has one positional so... yea.

Point is, none of them are really that demanding, though before now missing a positional as DRG meant more than it did for a MNK.

[Casper]

In terms of a complete stand still fight:MNK > DRG > NIN

MNK has the most positionals, but honestly it works like any other job where things just flow once you play it enough. DRG has a long rotation but you eventually get to the point where you don't even need to think about it. The differences are pretty minor, the main thing is that MNK has to move a lot so that puts it slightly ahead of DRG. DRG and MNK even out by the long rotation vs Mudras (same amount of muscle memory required), but DRG still has 2 positionals he needs to hit for max DPS so DRG pulls ahead by a hair.

On a random boss spinning fight/bad tank scenario:

MNK > DRG > NIN

Before it would be DRG > MNK, but now that positionals aren't required and DRGs only suffer a minor DPS loss from not hitting them, MNK remains harder due to constant positional loss. NIN has one positional so... yea.

Point is, none of them are really that demanding, though before now missing a positional as DRG meant more than it did for a MNK.

"Long rotation" ?

Dude you even have a rotation ! All other jobs use a priority system on the fly, because there is no "rotation". If you want to do a ninja rotation it is going to be 60+moves long. Get it together.

Assuming you do a priority system like mnks and nins, you need to select, each time, if you go FT, CT, P or HT. Same as a Nin that decides between AE, DE, SF or M. Mnk is similar too.

As for Off GCD, all three share invigorate, BfB, raging. Then dragoon has leg sweep, life surge, jump, spineshatter and dragonfire dives. Nothing hard on that, just hit one when they are ready during an off GCD. Ninja has a bunch too (3) and mnk a bit less but still, nothing hard about that. Yeah there is animation lock, so don't use it during nerf gas, woohoo. Nin has an ass long animation lock on one of the three too and its going to kill you two if you use it at the wrong time.

So it really comes down, before the nerf, to:

1) positionnals for 6 different attacks, all over the place, none too punishing if missed (plus GL3 but baring special circumstances this is not something a mnk need to take care of, just keep hitting stuff)
2) positionnals for 2 attacks, mediumly punishing (yeah because if you missed HT or ID you could just reuse it directly, without screwing it up, so you just had one GCD semi-wasted on a 100 potency attack)
3) positionnal for 1 attack, much more punishing than any other (there is no coming back for trick attack, you miss it, the 35 dps it gives is gone for the whole minute), PLUS the mudras (and this is not as easy as others are making it to be).

Post patch, change that for 2 attack, not punishing at all for drg. As i said, should you do them completely randomly you will lose 1.5% dps at worst. A mnk doing the same would lose about 15% dps - it is literally 10 time more punishing, and they have 3 times as much to hit than you. A ninja still remains with the most harsh punishment for missing any trick attack positionning or mudra -- missing out a huton is going to tank the dps of the ninja by half what it would be for a mnk to lose GL3 without PB up, for a whole minute, and we all know how bad that is.




Look, as i said, the buffs for resistance and damage where welcome and justified. But they dumbed down drg to the ground -- there is literally nothing hard about it now, and it is easier than both mnk or nin by several orders.

[Sessurea]

"As for Off GCD, all three share invigorate, BfB, raging. .

Dragoon doesn't have raging strikes. neither does nin. I think monk doesn't either?

Also how can you even say dragoon is dumbed down, when nin is exactly as easy as dragoon( now )?

The only difficult thing I can see is for monks chasing down positionals, and by that I mean difficult positionals. ( moving rotating targets ), while a dragoon could consider skiping a positional and nin.....well nin does w/e.

Everything else is just key sequence muscle memory at this point. Just "pressing buttons" as you said.

[Spoekes]

The discussion on positionals is pathetic.

Before the patch, you are saying positionals are easy peasy once you get used to them.

It's literally sidestepping 2 steps on the left or the right every couple of attacks. It doesn't require a PhD in positionnal attacks.

After the patch, you are saying the removal of positional impact is dumbing down the job and act like it is very hard.

But they dumbed down drg to the ground -- there is literally nothing hard about it now, and it is easier than both mnk or nin by several orders.

So what if dragoon had their FT combo be side - rear - side, and their CT combo rear - side - rear? Would you guys (dragoons) be okay ? And each time you miss one you miss 1/3rd of the potency. That's pretty much what mnk are dealing with now. Is that fine with you ?

So what now?

Most likely there will never be an objective statement which of both is "harder" or "more easy" overall, and this is a good thing, both seem viable now (balanced!).

If you play DRG -> Why not be happy with it?
If you don't -> Why not be happy for DRGs?

Rest didn't change..

If MNK will ever get a change to make the positionals less punishing like DRG is now, why should DRGs comlain about it? Same goes for this change IMHO.

Hakuna matata

[Nexxus]

In terms of a complete stand still fight:

MNK > DRG > NIN

MNK has the most positionals, but honestly it works like any other job where things just flow once you play it enough. DRG has a long rotation but you eventually get to the point where you don't even need to think about it. The differences are pretty minor, the main thing is that MNK has to move a lot so that puts it slightly ahead of DRG. DRG and MNK even out by the long rotation vs Mudras (same amount of muscle memory required), but DRG still has 2 positionals he needs to hit for max DPS so DRG pulls ahead by a hair.

On a random boss spinning fight/bad tank scenario:

MNK > DRG > NIN

Before it would be DRG > MNK, but now that positionals aren't required and DRGs only suffer a minor DPS loss from not hitting them, MNK remains harder due to constant positional loss. NIN has one positional so... yea.

Point is, none of them are really that demanding, though before now missing a positional as DRG meant more than it did for a MNK.

I've never played dragoon and i probably never will, but as mnk vs nin, i think that once you have learn how they both work, mnk is easier to play on a complete stand still fight where nin is still difficult as you don't have a choregraphy to execute but more of a freestyle, sometime i even forget to check if my mudras are up as i'm already on DoT/debuff (i don't trust war that say it'll will keep the debuff up... half the time...) tracking.

As a mnk, you keep everything up as long as you keep going your rotation.
As nin, you keep everything up as long as you are aware of what need to be reapplied.

also, going between back and rear isn't difficult at all, just stand at the edge of both and you probably wont move to much.