Are cracks in the Armoury System beginning to surface?

[AlexiaKidd]

Just because that is not how you want to play doesn't make it "Wrong". the system was designed that way, whether you like it or not is a moot point.

PS: this debate happens in ever MMO, those that dont put forth the effort feel the game should somehow compensate for their lack of trying.

PPS: I only have one 50 but I'm not so selfish that I think I should be equal to those that have worked hard enough to have multiple 50s.

PPPS: If you want to be the best tank you can be then work for it, no one is going to hand it to you.

Just in case you hadn't noticed this whole topic doesn't really concern me as I saw this coming from the beginning so I did put the time in and I do have my seriously over powered classes. It does however effect the people I play with as they do not have this time and only have 1 R50 which has put them at a huge disadvantage to people like me who do have lots of R50's.

Even though I do have multiple R50's I do not feel like that should allow me to be as over powered as I am as frankly to me it seems game breaking the things I can do compared to players who only have that one Class at R50. Which if this is how it's going to be who are the dev's going to make difficult content for? Me with multiple R50's which would mean those that do not have multiple R50's would just get left behind, or would they make it for those that only have 1 R50 which would make that content easy for me.

[AdvancedWind]

No gear is gear, but when 2 GLA's in exactly the same gear can be completely different and one have a huge advantage and I am not talking just a little bit of an advantage I am talking huge just because they have the time to level every Class to R50 that does not seem fair.

"Gear is gear" could also be applied to "Ability is ability", sorry. We can even factor in quest or guild mark abilities; should those also be tweaked in such a way so they don't give any major advantage just because the player must do something else (invest more time) BESIDES leveling his class to get?

Also, getting rarer gear is an extra time investiment just like leveling more classes is, and there are even situations where a player is 'forced' to use a R50 weapon he considers 'lame' instead of the 'cool' looking but weaker R30 sword, same way a player may have to level a class he doesn't want to.

The point is, player invest more time = player gets more powerful and versatile than someone who don't, and I still don't see a problem with that. This is not a balancing issue, because, as others already pointed out, everyone can eventually reach the same point.

[Commat]

Even though I do have multiple R50's I do not feel like that should allow me to be as over powered as I am as frankly to me it seems game breaking the things I can do compared to players who only have that one Class at R50. Which if this is how it's going to be who are the dev's going to make difficult content for? Me with multiple R50's which would mean those that do not have multiple R50's would just get left behind, or would they make it for those that only have 1 R50 which would make that content easy for me.

That's a great question!

In my mind, the dev team has to assume all players running content have all the best gear/abilities/buffs. If they don't then content becomes very easy for those that want it the hardest.

And naturally, that will make content too hard for those that don't meet all requirements.

As for if its "fair" or not, I don't think that's a problem. I think it's more a problem that the system doesn't feel very natural. Not everyone will want to level all classes which adds annoyance and a feeling that the game is adding unwanted, huge time sinks.

Also, the OP's point on Jobs being any good compared to fully maxed out characters is another valid concern. I'm confidant that at least initially, at least one class will be better then the Job it should take, which will kill then fun of unlocking and mastering it.

[tachikoma]

But building challenging content is REALLY hard to do when you have to account for players who have every class at 50 and access to every skill in the game. This is why Yoshi developed the job system. This allows access to advanced weapons/skills/traits which limit your ability to cross class everything. You are now stronger then before but have a larger dependence on others.

[Abriael]

Someone seems to think that someone that puts little effort on his progression should be as powerful as someone that puts much more effort in it.

I don't think that even makes sense.

[Tigercub]

I think it's interesting that so many people say there should be a reward for getting all classes to 50. As far as I'm aware, there already is one - diversity. You get to pick and choose and adapt your group to the fight. A group with many classes leveled is already considerably more dynamic than a group with very few and therefore are already more powerful in one sense.

I don't think that on top of that you should also put others who can't invest the same kind of time to shame on one equal leveled class. Not everyone has the kind of time to make their character awesome, but we should at least be able to level one class to cap and feel somewhat competitive on that one class, just as you could in XI. The armory system turns that idea on its arse. You don't have to even be at level cap to realize that the higher rank skills on other classes will give you a massive advantage.

I also just think it's pretty silly that the strength of your class would depend far more heavily on your rank in other classes you may not even want to play. How does that make sense? In order to play GLA well you should spend three times as long on other classes to get their skills. It's basically like the subjob system turned inside out and the subjob is now your main.

[Abriael]

I think it's interesting that so many people say there should be a reward for getting all classes to 50. As far as I'm aware, there already is one - diversity. You get to pick and choose and adapt your group to the fight. A group with many classes leveled is already considerably more dynamic than a group with very few and therefore are already more powerful in one sense.

I don't think that on top of that you should also put others who can't invest the same kind of time to shame on one equal leveled class. Not everyone has the kind of time to make their character awesome, but we should at least be able to level one class to cap and feel somewhat competitive on that one class, just as you could in XI. The armory system turns that idea on its arse. You don't have to even be at level cap to realize that the higher rank skills on other classes will give you a massive advantage.

I also just think it's pretty silly that the strength of your class would depend far more heavily on your rank in other classes you may not even want to play. How does that make sense? In order to play GLA well you should spend three times as long on other classes to get their skills. It's basically like the subjob system turned inside out and the subjob is now your main.

time invested is and always will be the primary discrimination in MMORPGs.

Even without the class system, more time = better equipment, more experience and such.

There's nothing wrong with it. There's no time limit to which anyone can play a MMORPG. People that play less will just get there later.

People that leveled just one class should never expect to be even nearly as powerful than people that invested much more time on their progression.

[Malakhim]

The point we're trying to make is that you DON'T have to do all of that to be competent, but if you want to be competitive, then you're gonna want to diversify a bit.

[kukurumei]

Armory system was a problem from day 1... the thread is like understatement of the year.

[AlexiaKidd]

Someone seems to think that someone that puts little effort on his progression should be as powerful as someone that puts much more effort in it.

I don't think that even makes sense.

No if someone has put the effort in to get a Class to R50 then that should be fine. A bonus to make that Class better would be Merits and that would give someone who put that effort into getting fully merited for that Class an advantage like 10-15%. Here we are talking about a huge advantage over 50% for players that level every single class and thats ridiculous.