Women and Armor!

[Fyrebrand]

While I so far have agreed with you on everything I do have to contest the Barbie thing. Despite her extremely unrealistic proportions Barbie is a super career woman and most definitely didn't just hang around her house all day. Barbie has had over a hundred different careers as everything from doctor, to lawyer, to being president. Barbie is portrayed as an independent, confident, loving woman. I'm not some Barbie fangirl or something but it would be wrong not to point out that Barbie is quite a good role model for young girls (unrealistic body aside).

Oh? Okay, well I stand corrected on the Barbie mythos, I guess. Still, I have a hard time imagining many young girls are grabbing their Barbies so they can pretend to be doctors, lawyers, or presidents.

Regardless, I stand by my point: the answer to somebody's problem with Thing A is not to point out another problem with Thing B. Barbie projects a weird and perverse body image. He-Man projects a weird and perverse body image. The two are both problematic, in their way. But we can't just throw each against each other and expect them to mutually invalidate themselves as topics of concern.

It's kind of like how enemies of the contemporary feminist movement tend to moan about "men's rights." Uh, okay, men should have rights too, but I don't see how we don't have rights. But even if there are areas where men were being oppressed or treated inequitably, that's not a reason to deny women's rights in other areas.

[BunnyChain]

Oh my, this thread... OP what have you done?!

It's highly entertaining to see people arguing with each other about different things.
I almost get the feeling some of them are trolling here...

Or speaking for the development team, e.g. something being unrealistic or too much work, as if they were a part of it.
I hope the mods who might have to read this are having a good time as well.

On topic: The crafter's coatee set is very over the top, when I had to wear it while leveling my crafter classes it did make me feel uncomfortable and I tried to switch to the more reasonable crafting gear when I was getting the chance. I'm glad I don't have to go back there again. Just my 0.02 gil.

[Felis]

I don't think anyone wants this? To me equality means, if it's sexy on women, it should be sexy on men, too. As many have stated, men and women like to look at each other!

So why do guys get to look at female drg belly, but we don't get to look at male drg belly? It's not "artistic vision", so don't give me that. Because it's designed with straight men in mind, and that's the crux of the matter.

Sexy is subjective.
What is sexy on men is not always sexy on female. What is sexy on female is not always sexy on male. What is sexy on me is not always sexy on my neighboor.

For some a belly is sexy, for other it is just a belly and not really sexy. It is just here. Also it depend if you are in a romantic mood or are stressed out.

[whoopeeragon]

Men like to watch women. Women like to watch men. It's how humans are built. Deal with it, as things are NOT changing anytime soon, I can guarantee you that.

But but...what about those of us who, you know.... ._.

-goes back to viewing my secret stash of Roeg and Highlander male screenshots-

[Elgeron]

Oh my, this thread... OP what have you done?!

It's highly entertaining to see people arguing with each other about different things.
I almost get the feeling some of them are trolling here...

Or speaking for the development team, e.g. something being unrealistic or too much work, as if they were a part of it.
I hope the mods who might have to read this are having a good time as well.

On topic: The crafter's coatee set is very over the top, when I had to wear it while leveling my crafter classes it did make me feel uncomfortable and I tried to switch to the more reasonable crafting gear when I was getting the chance. I'm glad I don't have to go back there again. Just my 0.02 gil.

But what changes could be made to avoid situations like this to happen ?

If we change the gear to look exactly to the male counterpart, then those who liked or that want a more sexy or cute look would actually be dissapointed and angry. And I'm not only speaking of male players but I'm pretty sure there are lot of women who actually dig the style.

Then the other more logic solution would be either to add the option on the game to change the look of the clothes or create two separated sets, the regular one and the sexy one. But this itself I think may bring some problems. One of them is that from a developer point of view, using resources on this may not been deemed worthy or consider too costly. On the other hand, players with male character ( be them men or women) may feel like the characters of the opposite gender is favored by receiving more options.

The solution for this last problem would clearly be to let every gender to wear any kind of clothes. But at the same time this generate other kind of problems. And considering that Square Enix is actually very cautios with the content of the game and want to avoid any kind of controversy, this sadly don't look like a possible option. Without mentioning resources and work needed to adapt all the gear to all the races and tribes of both genders.

For now I personally hope Square Enix don't get too crazy and start making the gear too different between genres. If they keep adding both sexy and normal options and keep them equal to both sexes that would be, in my opinion, great.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Remilia: Really, I don't know what your deal is, but you have got to stop with this "Be glad men are attracted to women and just let us gawk at your exposed bodies" vibe. I don't know if it's just a miscommunication issue, but it is coming of way more pervy than you probably mean it to sound. Yes, if males and females stopped being sexually attracted to one another, the human race might decline in population. Is that an imminent danger? Does that have anything to do with this topic, or gals wanting to be allowed to dress themselves as they please?

As usual, people are equivocating what I write just for their convenience.

First of all, I don't "have to stop" with something just because you don't like it. Please be respectful of others' opinions.

Second, I have said more than once that liking the female body is THE REASON fanservice exists, whether you accept it as a valid reson or not it's irrelevant - ultimately IT IS the reason, otherwise there would be no games like TERA. I have also said that there is nothing inherently wrong with this, as it's pretty much natural for a person to be physically attracted by the opposite sex, with males being, generally speaking, more visual than females, and considering that, for a long time, games (including MMOs) were the dominion of male players, especially in Asian countries. These elements led to the trend we have seen plenty of times in many games (and not only games), which is, fortunately for you, definitely marginal in FFXIV.

It's not a miscommunication issue, it's the tendency of you people to deliberately misreading what I write because you have already labeled me as "sexist" the moment I did not agree with you.

I am not sexist. I do not believe females are "inferior" (whatever this means) to males. I do not believe the opposite, either. I believe that males and females are different tho, but I am not judging who IS BETTER. I would never do that. I am just highlighting the fact that, usually, eye-candy for males is rather easy to obtain while for females it might not be that obvious and straightforward. I repeat, please check the adult movies industry and wonder why most of it is catering to the heterosexual male.
My guess? Because 1) Demand is higher and 2) It's EASY. Just show some boobs and you are done. Yes, most males work like that.

And yes, this is relevant with the topic at hand because the Female Coatee is just that: easy eyecandy to please the male crowd. Suddenly making the Male Coatee as skimpy is NOT guaranteed to please most of the females, because...well, it would be out of place. From my point of view, as males generally like femininity, females generally like masculinity. A man dressed with a Summer Pareo is hardly "masculine", as things currently are seen in our society.

Of course, as I have ALREADY SAID, everyone would like MORE ARMORS. However we still need to consider developement time - it's not like we can "just ask" for things to happen. There is money and time involved. If the developers will believe that closing the belly button on the DRG armor will let them earn more money (or, conversely, NOT closing it will make them lose money) then we will see a change. Otherwise, we won't.

But feel free to keep calling me "sexist", if you believe that to be the correct course of action to support your arguments.

But but...what about those of us who, you know.... ._.

-goes back to viewing my secret stash of Roeg and Highlander male screenshots-

I repeat, AGAIN, that I am speaking about heterosexual individuals. Please, please remember that I am always implying the existence of homosexuals or any possible exceptions. Thanks.

[Fue]

He-Man projects a weird and perverse body image.

Im sorry but you just made this personal.

[Elgeron]

As usual, people are equivocating what I write just for their convenience.

I repeat, please check the adult movies industry and wonder why most of it is catering to the heterosexual male.
My guess? Because 1) Demand is higher and 2) It's EASY. Just show some boobs and you are done. Yes, most males work like that.

I would like to add to this that maybe it is not that is easier, but that fanservice for women was not taken seriously until fairly recently. Nowadays, it is not stange to see young women commenting on how hot some dude is just as much as males do. Also recently with things like Twillight, Fifty Shades of Grey, etc, we may be seeing a change in the media to cater more to women desire for fanservice. And in my opinion, these didn't do anything to complicated to get women attention.

And yes, this is relevant with the topic at hand because the Female Coatee is just that: easy eyecandy to please the male crowd. Suddenly making the Male Coatee as skimpy is NOT guaranteed to please most of the females, because...well, it would be out of place...

Actually, is pretty probable that there are also a considerable percent of women that like the look of it. I mean, I can't assure anything, but there are who women also like to look sexy and powerfull, just as most men probably like too (the ideal of the strong dude who gets all the chicks). Also I guess it is worth to consider the fact that some designs suit better the female anatomy and not are only there to look sexy, but also good.

Of course, as I have ALREADY SAID, everyone would like MORE ARMORS. However we still need to consider developement time - it's not like we can "just ask" for things to happen. There is money and time involved. If the developers will believe that closing the belly button on the DRG armor will let them earn more money (or, conversely, NOT closing it will make them lose money) then we will see a change. Otherwise, we won't.

Totally agree with this, as much as more options will be great, is just to hard and unprobable to be implemented.

[Aegis]

IActually, is pretty probable that there are also a considerable percent of women that like the look of it. I mean, I can't assure anything, but there are who women also like to look sexy and powerfull, just as most men probably like too (the ideal of the strong dude who gets all the chicks). Also I guess it is worth to consider the fact that some designs suit better the female anatomy and not are only there to look sexy, but also good.

What part of the coatee cleavage set looks powerful again? Or the Dragoon stab me in the guts panel? Or the Ninja stab me in the heart/lungs panel?

They are reducing the armour (literally) for the sole purpose of making it more revealing.

[Elgeron]

What part of the coatee cleavage set looks powerful again? Or the Dragoon stab me in the guts panel? Or the Ninja stab me in the heart/lungs panel?

They are reducing the armour (literally) for the sole purpose of making it more revealing.

Actually is not that they are powerful looking, because a lot of sexy clothing doesn't looks powerful. Is more that players can be sexy, yet play as powerful warriors or mages. Just take a look at a lot of movies were the women characters weird ridiculous sexy, yet kicks everyone ass. The clothes don't look powerful, is the character that is powerful while looking sexy. What I meant to say is that the gear itself isn't powerfull looking but the player look sexy while being powerfull, but I think my poor wording is too blame there.


With this I don't say that kind of style is not aimed to men, wich they are more likely are aimed at, just that there are women who like it too. Sometimes people just don't care about realism but for what they like.

One problem I see in these kind of arguments of that the gear "is not practical and realistic", but almost all off the high level gear is ridicolous impractical, even the ones that cover the full body. You can alledge suspension of disbelief but that may be too subjective to arrive to a general consensus. Instead I think the focus should be in the fact that there are significant differences between male and female version of the gear ( that has nothing to do with differences in anatomy) which dramatically affect the aesthetics of the characters. The cool and badass Ninja armor is instead sexy for female players, while the sexy gear for men is also sexy for women. This take away variety for players of female characters to have more styles and customization. In the case of the Dragoon armor it takes part of the armor, making the design feel kind of incomplete or poor compared to the male version.

Other minor thing to add is that the coatee is a crafting gear, wich kind of strike me as unpractical even on the male version, it looks too elegant and restraining to do things as blacksmithing. And even with the belly hole, Dragoon gear still looks very powerful.