Women and Armor!

[whoopeeragon]

Men like to watch women. Women like to watch men. It's how humans are built. Deal with it, as things are NOT changing anytime soon, I can guarantee you that.

But but...what about those of us who, you know.... ._.

-goes back to viewing my secret stash of Roeg and Highlander male screenshots-

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Remilia: Really, I don't know what your deal is, but you have got to stop with this "Be glad men are attracted to women and just let us gawk at your exposed bodies" vibe. I don't know if it's just a miscommunication issue, but it is coming of way more pervy than you probably mean it to sound. Yes, if males and females stopped being sexually attracted to one another, the human race might decline in population. Is that an imminent danger? Does that have anything to do with this topic, or gals wanting to be allowed to dress themselves as they please?

As usual, people are equivocating what I write just for their convenience.

First of all, I don't "have to stop" with something just because you don't like it. Please be respectful of others' opinions.

Second, I have said more than once that liking the female body is THE REASON fanservice exists, whether you accept it as a valid reson or not it's irrelevant - ultimately IT IS the reason, otherwise there would be no games like TERA. I have also said that there is nothing inherently wrong with this, as it's pretty much natural for a person to be physically attracted by the opposite sex, with males being, generally speaking, more visual than females, and considering that, for a long time, games (including MMOs) were the dominion of male players, especially in Asian countries. These elements led to the trend we have seen plenty of times in many games (and not only games), which is, fortunately for you, definitely marginal in FFXIV.

It's not a miscommunication issue, it's the tendency of you people to deliberately misreading what I write because you have already labeled me as "sexist" the moment I did not agree with you.

I am not sexist. I do not believe females are "inferior" (whatever this means) to males. I do not believe the opposite, either. I believe that males and females are different tho, but I am not judging who IS BETTER. I would never do that. I am just highlighting the fact that, usually, eye-candy for males is rather easy to obtain while for females it might not be that obvious and straightforward. I repeat, please check the adult movies industry and wonder why most of it is catering to the heterosexual male.
My guess? Because 1) Demand is higher and 2) It's EASY. Just show some boobs and you are done. Yes, most males work like that.

And yes, this is relevant with the topic at hand because the Female Coatee is just that: easy eyecandy to please the male crowd. Suddenly making the Male Coatee as skimpy is NOT guaranteed to please most of the females, because...well, it would be out of place. From my point of view, as males generally like femininity, females generally like masculinity. A man dressed with a Summer Pareo is hardly "masculine", as things currently are seen in our society.

Of course, as I have ALREADY SAID, everyone would like MORE ARMORS. However we still need to consider developement time - it's not like we can "just ask" for things to happen. There is money and time involved. If the developers will believe that closing the belly button on the DRG armor will let them earn more money (or, conversely, NOT closing it will make them lose money) then we will see a change. Otherwise, we won't.

But feel free to keep calling me "sexist", if you believe that to be the correct course of action to support your arguments.

But but...what about those of us who, you know.... ._.

-goes back to viewing my secret stash of Roeg and Highlander male screenshots-

I repeat, AGAIN, that I am speaking about heterosexual individuals. Please, please remember that I am always implying the existence of homosexuals or any possible exceptions. Thanks.

[Elgeron]

As usual, people are equivocating what I write just for their convenience.

I repeat, please check the adult movies industry and wonder why most of it is catering to the heterosexual male.
My guess? Because 1) Demand is higher and 2) It's EASY. Just show some boobs and you are done. Yes, most males work like that.

I would like to add to this that maybe it is not that is easier, but that fanservice for women was not taken seriously until fairly recently. Nowadays, it is not stange to see young women commenting on how hot some dude is just as much as males do. Also recently with things like Twillight, Fifty Shades of Grey, etc, we may be seeing a change in the media to cater more to women desire for fanservice. And in my opinion, these didn't do anything to complicated to get women attention.

And yes, this is relevant with the topic at hand because the Female Coatee is just that: easy eyecandy to please the male crowd. Suddenly making the Male Coatee as skimpy is NOT guaranteed to please most of the females, because...well, it would be out of place...

Actually, is pretty probable that there are also a considerable percent of women that like the look of it. I mean, I can't assure anything, but there are who women also like to look sexy and powerfull, just as most men probably like too (the ideal of the strong dude who gets all the chicks). Also I guess it is worth to consider the fact that some designs suit better the female anatomy and not are only there to look sexy, but also good.

Of course, as I have ALREADY SAID, everyone would like MORE ARMORS. However we still need to consider developement time - it's not like we can "just ask" for things to happen. There is money and time involved. If the developers will believe that closing the belly button on the DRG armor will let them earn more money (or, conversely, NOT closing it will make them lose money) then we will see a change. Otherwise, we won't.

Totally agree with this, as much as more options will be great, is just to hard and unprobable to be implemented.

[Aegis]

IActually, is pretty probable that there are also a considerable percent of women that like the look of it. I mean, I can't assure anything, but there are who women also like to look sexy and powerfull, just as most men probably like too (the ideal of the strong dude who gets all the chicks). Also I guess it is worth to consider the fact that some designs suit better the female anatomy and not are only there to look sexy, but also good.

What part of the coatee cleavage set looks powerful again? Or the Dragoon stab me in the guts panel? Or the Ninja stab me in the heart/lungs panel?

They are reducing the armour (literally) for the sole purpose of making it more revealing.

[Elgeron]

What part of the coatee cleavage set looks powerful again? Or the Dragoon stab me in the guts panel? Or the Ninja stab me in the heart/lungs panel?

They are reducing the armour (literally) for the sole purpose of making it more revealing.

Actually is not that they are powerful looking, because a lot of sexy clothing doesn't looks powerful. Is more that players can be sexy, yet play as powerful warriors or mages. Just take a look at a lot of movies were the women characters weird ridiculous sexy, yet kicks everyone ass. The clothes don't look powerful, is the character that is powerful while looking sexy. What I meant to say is that the gear itself isn't powerfull looking but the player look sexy while being powerfull, but I think my poor wording is too blame there.


With this I don't say that kind of style is not aimed to men, wich they are more likely are aimed at, just that there are women who like it too. Sometimes people just don't care about realism but for what they like.

One problem I see in these kind of arguments of that the gear "is not practical and realistic", but almost all off the high level gear is ridicolous impractical, even the ones that cover the full body. You can alledge suspension of disbelief but that may be too subjective to arrive to a general consensus. Instead I think the focus should be in the fact that there are significant differences between male and female version of the gear ( that has nothing to do with differences in anatomy) which dramatically affect the aesthetics of the characters. The cool and badass Ninja armor is instead sexy for female players, while the sexy gear for men is also sexy for women. This take away variety for players of female characters to have more styles and customization. In the case of the Dragoon armor it takes part of the armor, making the design feel kind of incomplete or poor compared to the male version.

Other minor thing to add is that the coatee is a crafting gear, wich kind of strike me as unpractical even on the male version, it looks too elegant and restraining to do things as blacksmithing. And even with the belly hole, Dragoon gear still looks very powerful.

[Aegis]

Actually is not that they are powerful looking, because a lot of sexy clothing doesn't looks powerful. Is more that players can be sexy, yet play as powerful warriors or mages. Just take a look at a lot of movies were the women characters weird ridiculous sexy, yet kicks everyone ass. The clothes don't look powerful, is the character that is powerful while looking sexy. What I meant to say is that the gear itself isn't powerfull looking but the player look sexy while being powerfull, but I think my poor wording is too blame there.

Understood and agreed. It's just that the females are required to look sexy if they want to wear that gear. The most common response I hear to this is that 'Well they can choose to wear something else, there's lots of non-revealing gear in this game' and my point is, they shouldn't have to wear something else. If they want to wear the iconic Kain-style Dragoon AF, they shouldn't have to settle for a revealing knock-off when men don't have to also.

One problem I see in these kind of arguments of that the gear "is not practical and realistic", but almost all off the high level gear is ridicolous impractical, even the ones that cover the full body. You can alledge suspension of disbelief but that may be too subjective to arrive to a general consensus. Instead I think the focus should be in the fact that there are significant differences between male and female version of the gear ( that has nothing to do with differences in anatomy) which dramatically affect the aesthetics of the characters. The cool and badass Ninja armor is instead sexy for female players, while the sexy gear for men is also sexy for women. This take away variety for players of female characters to have more styles and customization. In the case of the Dragoon armor it takes part of the armor, making the design feel kind of incomplete or poor compared to the male version.

Other minor thing to add is that the coatee is a crafting gear, wich kind of strike me as unpractical even on the male version, it looks too elegant and restraining to do things as blacksmithing. And even with the belly hole, Dragoon gear still looks very powerful.

I think we're essentially on the same page. I personally preferred the more 'practical' aesthetic of the gear released with Version 1 (highest level armour was Iron Plate Mail iirc - I know cobalt came later). But within the bounds of the new aesthetic, I don't mind the gear being unrealistic or impractical, as long as the changes between genders are there for purely 'practical' reasons (ie: the bra being added to the open shirts and the harnesses so that those babies aren't swinging loose and upping the game's age rating).

I don't think "Sexy"(Don't think thats the right word but its whats been used) armor should be removed entirely and replaced by a new line of conservative armor that covers your body from head to toe like the Darksteel trash can armor, like some of you seem to be requesting,

Literally no-one has asked for this. It's one of the most frustrating parts of being on this side of the debate. People don't read, assume they know what you're asking for then misrepresent you. No amount of correcting them every makes them see they made a mistake though.