Women and Armor!

[Fyrebrand]

This video is going to either be sexist or it's going to be some professional victim Anita Sarkeesian wannabe whining over nothing for pity donations/views. Either way I don't want to see it.

This thread has been going for 27 pages just fine, without you. No one is impressed by your willfully ignorant opinion of a video you didn't even watch, or that you have nothing relevant to say about the actual topic.

If you hadn't noticed, men used to wear tights and heels and preen themselves like birds of paradise then guess what happened? Society got stuck on the weird notion that if you were male and you put effort into your appearance you were gay. King Louis XIV (hehehe) of France even designed his own fancy shoes.

I have heard that pink was actually considered a masculine color, commonly associated with boys, up until as late as WW2 or some time around there..? But for whatever reason, things changed, and now most people would say pink is a "feminine" color and even object to a male wearing pink. There are probably a lot of people who assume it's always been like this, and that it's somehow the natural way of things. But that's fashion for you, a bunch of arbitrary nonsense that frankly I have little interest in or patience for.

I think it's profoundly bizarre that we've come to this point, where it's currently considered so damn important that female armor in a video game maintain a certain level of sexiness or reveal a lot more skin than the male counterpart. Simply asking for an option to the contrary, or even acknowledging that this trend exists, routinely attracts belligerent comments.

I'll bet there is some alternate universe somewhere, in which all the video games have females wearing yellow ponchos and green sombreros. And then somebody made a funny cartoon about a character trying to find a blue poncho or another style of hat, and gets pages of hostile comments and accusations.

[Riepah]

SE, just put the belly armor back on the female's DRG kit and we'll call it a day. ><
/exasperatedsigh

No, because then everyone who likes the DRG armor as it is now will start complaining. Stop trying to force your preferences on everyone else. Ask for a different armor set to be added, or the option to hide/display that part of the armor, but don't ask for existing armor to be changed just because you don't like it.

[Teryaani]

SE, just put the belly armor back on the female's DRG kit and we'll call it a day. ><
/exasperatedsigh

There would be a riot the other direction. You know there would be.

[Edellis]

i stand by my opinion. If feminists (and pseudo-feminists) are complaining about portrayal of women in this game, they are shooting themselves in the foot, because this is one of the few examples of "done right" in the whole damn industry.

Or, we can complain about Female DRG and whatever 3 other pieces somehow condemn this game to criticism as if it's TERA or PSO2.

Buttttt i dont really see any feminists in here, just typical forum dwellers...

I think it's profoundly bizarre that we've come to this point, where it's currently considered so damn important that female armor in a video game maintain a certain level of sexiness or reveal a lot more skin than the male counterpart. Simply asking for an option to the contrary, or even acknowledging that this trend exists, routinely attracts belligerent comments.

I just...i mean..i agree, it's just....

...How did this become a hot-topic in FFXIV...? Outfits are near copies of eachother, barring the fact that women unfortunately (????) have breasts, and that has to be accounted for.

[Ophie-Mio]

I have heard that pink was actually considered a masculine color, commonly associated with boys, up until as late as WW2 or some time around there..? But for whatever reason, things changed, and now most people would say pink is a "feminine" color and even object to a male wearing pink. There are probably a lot of people who assume it's always been like this, and that it's somehow the natural way of things. But that's fashion for you, a bunch of arbitrary nonsense that frankly I have little interest in or patience for.

<<<European historical fashion lover here.

Pink used to be a very masculine color! Society believed that blue was actually a very delicate and dainty tone. They much preferred pink for boys since it was derived from the passionate red tones. Hell, a lot of it started from the English uniforms that were bright red. The boys wore pink because they were boys and the men wore red. Women tended to wear pastels since the only dyes at the time were not able to be very vibrant.

As textile and dying processes became more advanced, they were able to create even more vivid versions of pink. In 1927 all the major stores were still saying it was a man's paradise in pink and it wasn't until the 1940's with the economy BOOMING, stores noticed that women started to latch onto the color pink. How the stores interpreted this rush ended up completely shaping the symbolic gender colors that we know today. Baby boomers noticed how all this advertising and marketing was happening and did what people who watch advertisements always do, they latch onto the idea. So all the kids were dressed a certain way and it became life as we know it.

Also! It became noted that gays were forced into the color pink by the ribbons they had to wear in concentration camps. Hence, pink's association with the gay community.

It's so profoundly bizarre that women can't even ask for things that help us feel a little less objectified without being bombarded with comments from males thinking that things are the way they have always been, that males would look ridiculous in certain styles of clothing, and that because someone they know likes to dress skimpy, obviously the rest of women are cray. All of this speaks of male raised in a male privileged culture who can't even imagine how society has projected a certain mindset onto the masses and that it dictates everything he thinks.

i stand by my opinion. If feminists (and pseudo-feminists) are complaining about portrayal of women in this game, they are shooting themselves in the foot, because this is one of the few examples of "done right" in the whole damn industry.

Also, I don't think anyone here is actually saying that this game is anything like Tera. They are pointing out how a few outfits have been noticeably changed to pander to the male crowd when there's no real reason to.
DRG AF being one, the coatee being another. I don't think it's even been mentioned how the Bard AF gives men a shirt underneath their outer tunic but doesn't bother for the females. This is a great example of why is there a difference? A man didn't need a shirt under there if the women one sure didn't. Why give them a shirt and have the women just have it all jiggling about? Both ways would have been sexy but for SOME reason the women's model had their shirt taken away and the male's didn't.
Women do have breasts but that doesn't mean they need to be hanging out in a coatee.
All people are saying here is that they want the option for the jacket to be buttoned up with a shirt or have the boobs hanging around.

[Fyrebrand]

If feminists (and pseudo-feminists) are complaining about portrayal of women in this game, they are shooting themselves in the foot...

Buttttt i dont really see any feminists in here, just typical forum dwellers...

Well, I consider myself a feminist, though I have no idea what you think that means, and there are others who seem to be very confused about the term. I don't think this even needs to be considered a "feminist" topic at all. Somebody just wants to have fair access to more armor options, simple as that. There just happen to be those who see such requests as destructive to their own enjoyment, somehow.

this is one of the few examples of "done right" in the whole damn industry.

How did this become a hot-topic in FFXIV...?.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that FFXIV sets a great example for the industry, and is relatively tame with regards to male/female armor disparity. I think most people in this thread have agreed on that, which actually has made the conversation a bit confusing to follow. I think in part, we can consider this a discussion of the greater subject as a whole, as it applies to the majority of MMORPGs out there and the standards they set.

[Riepah]

I don't think anyone here is opposing "options".
I for one oppose anyone who wants existing armor sets to be changed to suit their liking, but none who ask for either a different, new armor set with the look they have in mind, or a function similar to /visor which allows us to toggle between multiple looks.
However, anyone who accuses anyone else of "objectifying females" just because they like certain armor sets loses my support.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

They are pointing out how a few outfits have been noticeably changed to pander to the male crowd when there's no real reason to.

There is a reason.
Male players, in general, prefer to see some female armors designed like that.

Seems to me a valid enough reason considering that, as said, there are only VERY FEW armors like those.

If this was TERA I might find the issue understandable, but as things stands in this game, it just sounds ridiculous.

Let the males have their eye-candy and be glad that they actually like the female body - they are not hurting you in any shape of form.

[Adormus]

There is a reason.
Let the males have their eye-candy and be glad that they actually like the female body - they are not hurting you in any shape of form.

The question at hand is still: Why can't we have both? Eye Candy for people who like revealing armour and full plate mails for people who like "realism". The DRG armour is the perfect example of pixel-butchery. They added a hole to the belly - the most vital region of the human body. As if to say "Stab here". Now, I don't have problems with fellow players fighting in Bikinis or Hot Pants. But functional clothing should be, well, functional.

As I said before: Eye Candy->Vanity stuff. Purposeful armor->The base. I don't think there's a reason to deny that request.

[Elgeron]

I explicitly used "schoolgirl-styled skirts" as an example, not scottish kilts or wizard robes or cuban heels. I never said "all robes and skirt-like clothing is exclusively for females". I was speaking of pieces of clothing deliberately designed either for men or for women.

Wait, let me do a visual example using Japanese school uniforms:






Which one do you find less stupid?

I'm totally honest here, the more I look to the second photo, the less stupid I find it, I don't know why.

Then again the first one is clearly posing and being all cool while the guys are just getting dress and looking kind of akward.

Mayhaps one of the reasons female clothes looks bad on men is not because they are skirts, but because they are not designed apropietly for the male body, coupled with the fact that we are taugh to consider a way of dressing as ridicule and funny when men are sporting such clothes ? I don't really know much about the matter.

I'm my opinion I kind of agree in the fact that the differences between the differents gears are kind of puzzling and even a bit silly. They are not too big, but it can hurt if you are going for a more serious or prude character look. But at this point changing it is kind of impossible even if it would be simple to do because then you anger the other side who actually like those differences. And letting both options as ideal as it may be is probably not a possibility.

I love the variety of sexy and regular gear for both genders that the game offer, is probably not only one of the best examples of the best examples in the MMO's market, but also of videogames in general I think SE did an amazing an exemplar job there. Really outstanding ^^

If you want to blame someone about "sexy clothes" blame the playerbase, they asked for this (literally, the were tons of topics back in the 1.0 days asking for more sexy and pretty gear for the ladies).