Repetitive grind parties should NOT be the main source of leveling

[Corrderio]

Agreed. More variety for leveling the better.

[Murugan]

Disagree leveling with other people (group grinding) should be the most efficient way to level your character.

Generic questing should be there for people who like that kind of stuff solo, but if you do not give incentive for people to group (recognizing the work it takes to put together a party like Yoshi eluded to) then people simply won't bother with it.

The unfortunate truth is for the 1% of MMO players who claim that "games should be about having fun and just doing what you enjoy" the other 99% of players do what is efficient. If that is grouping then they will group (unless they are unable to in which case they will solo), if that is questing solo then everyone will do that. So really only one option (favoring grouping) gives 2 real options, the other absolutely destroys the viability of one in favor of the other.

[Ventus]

Disagree leveling with other people (group grinding) should be the most efficient way to level your character.

Generic questing should be there for people who like that kind of stuff solo, but if you do not give incentive for people to group (recognizing the work it takes to put together a party like Yoshi eluded to) then people simply won't bother with it.

The unfortunate truth is for the 1% of MMO players who claim that "games should be about having fun and just doing what you enjoy" the other 99% of players do what is efficient. If that is grouping then they will group (unless they are unable to in which case they will solo), if that is questing solo then everyone will do that. So really only one option (favoring grouping) gives 2 real options, the other absolutely destroys the viability of one in favor of the other.

I think people seem to think I'm soley for solo play as the best way to level up, and I'm not. I just want to make that clear.

Group ranking should be the fastest and most efficient, but I'm here to say let's not make mindless monster grinding in parties the best and only way to level up in a party.

[MeowyWowie]

Well, I have a some ideas, but none of them seem to be within the scope of FFXIV's potential.

Here's a defense scenario.

Invasions within the main cities. Mobs don't "spawn" but literally storm the entrances of the cities. They destroy buildings, kill npcs, set things on fire, the whole 9 yards.

We protect the city, obviously. There would be a limit as to how far outside the city gates we can stand and be able to participate in events like this. We try our best to halt their advance into the city, usually unsuccessful, but still work to force the invaders to retreat with their tails between their legs.

Throughout the event, anyone and everyone can be a target. You would form parties to help ensure your survival. Mobs can drop rare loot, and that rare loot can drop in multiple persons' parties at once (though very rarely, of course.) All mobs reward experience as we defeat them in relation to the amount of actions, damage, enmity you generate per mob (good use of the new enmity algorithms here.) The better we fare at the end of the invasion, the more bonus exp we get for completing it.

After all is said and done, we change to our crafting classes and begin to rebuild the broken walls and burned homes, and heal the injured NPCs. We can also change to our gathering classes and, just outside the city, gather materials to help rebuild our city that is now in shambles. Again, throughout this, we will also have a chance of receiving rare items, the chance of which depends on how well we did with defending the city.

So there you go. One way to progress, that doesn't feel like a grind, and includes EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME.

But ask yourself this. Do any of you really think that this could be possible in FFXIV? I don't know.. but I have my doubts.

[Ventus]

Well, I have a some ideas, but none of them seem to be within the scope of FFXIV's potential.

Here's a defense scenario.

Invasions within the main cities. Mobs don't "spawn" but literally storm the entrances of the cities. They destroy buildings, kill npcs, set things on fire, the whole 9 yards.

We protect the city, obviously. There would be a limit as to how far outside the city gates we can stand and be able to participate in events like this. We try our best to halt their advance into the city, usually unsuccessful, but still work to force the invaders to retreat with their tails between their legs.

Throughout the event, anyone and everyone can be a target. You would form parties to help ensure your survival. Mobs can drop rare loot, and that rare loot can drop in multiple persons' parties at once (though very rarely, of course.) All mobs reward experience as we defeat them in relation to the amount of actions, damage, enmity you generate per mob (good use of the new enmity algorithms here.) The better we fare at the end of the invasion, the more bonus exp we get for completing it.

After all is said and done, we change to our crafting classes and begin to rebuild the broken walls and burned homes, and heal the injured NPCs. We can also change to our gathering classes and, just outside the city, gather materials to help rebuild our city that is now in shambles. Again, throughout this, we will also have a chance of receiving rare items, the chance of which depends on how well we did with defending the city.

So there you go. One way to progress, that doesn't feel like a grind, and includes EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME.

But ask yourself this. Do any of you really think that this could be possible in FFXIV? I don't know.. but I have my doubts.

That's an awesome idea =D! I got really excited just reading it!

I understand your worries about how difficult it would be to implement, but I really think that's a great blueprint for a really fun idea. You know, you really reminded me of Warhammer Online how they have those scenarios that queue up every so often that anyone near could join up.

Perhaps make it something you can enter an instance for and queue up on O.o? All in all though great idea!

[Murugan]

I think people seem to think I'm soley for solo play as the best way to level up, and I'm not. I just want to make that clear.

Group ranking should be the fastest and most efficient, but I'm here to say let's not make mindless monster grinding in parties the best and only way to level up in a party.

Mindless? How about if you don't want it to be mindless simply remove the r10+ limit on mobs we grind on. There is nothing wrong with grinding, it is an RPG that is what you do in an RPG. There are other things to do as well, and they can continue adding those in for people who want to change it up but grinding mobs in a group should in my opinion remain the primary form of efficient leveling.

What's actually mindless is everything else that MMO's have come out with to replace it as a means of leveling (including FFXI).

[Ventus]

I had an idea recently:

What if we had it so that certain beast tribes would attack gates and nodes around the map every so often and we had to defend against them like a sort of mini war. It would give a more random and spontaneous feel to the game.

Each camp would have a status icon like:
-Untouched (perfect condition)
-Unsettled (slightly upset by beast tribe forces)
-Unstable (supplies almost exhausted and near destruction)
-demolished (beast tribe has pillaged the camp)

And depending on the status the camp could give different xp bonuses on leves so if you had untouched condition you could have like a 15% xp bonus or if you ward of beast tribes you get a good sp prize alongside sp you get from killing monsters. Also you could perhaps gain marks for your grand company (farmable marks) if you successfully ward off one of the occasional beast tribe waves that comes along.

Also discounts on stores there or other camp facilities could be available the better the condition. If the camp is in bad condition it will heal over time once tribes leave them alone.

Just feels like a cool randomized, interactive environment thing to add for gaining sp and other neat stuff =).

[Hayze]

Personally I am in favor of grind parties being the main source of leveling in this game. As Meowy rightly said it requires alot more effort to put together and the subsequent reward should always reflect that. Greater time effort spent = greater reward. I enjoyed the leveling process in FFXI and I did not find it neither boring or repetitive. I found party play dynamic and fun in FFXI. Depending on the party setups the leveling experience could change alot from group to group. However, what makes it less than enjoyable in FFXIV presently is the lack of variety provided by the class system. No real defined classes and roles. Though 1.18 took great strides towards changing that.

I do believe that there should be more viable alternative methods to leveling, both for solo and party play. While FFXI offered other methods to gain small amounts of additonal EXP thats all they were, small amounts. Several hours in Campaign or a level 8 Besieged would not yeild more than 2k exp so I always felt that was not a great representation of the effort put in. So I would like to see in this game offer better rewards for events outside of "old school" grinds.

[Ventus]

There is nothing wrong with grinding, it is an RPG that is what you do in an RPG.

I agree, it is necessary to a certain extent.

There are other things to do as well, and they can continue adding those in for people who want to change it up but grinding mobs in a group should in my opinion remain the primary form of efficient leveling.

Okay well I see what you're saying and you know where I stand on the matter. Now I just wanna know why grinding mobs in a group feels most fitting as the primary means of leveling. There are plenty of other RPGs, offline and online, I feel I could do this exact same task so it's hard for me to see where you're coming from.

[Hubert]

Personally I am in favor of grind parties being the main source of leveling in this game. As Meowy rightly said it requires alot more effort to put together and the subsequent reward should always reflect that. Greater time effort spent = greater reward. I enjoyed the leveling process in FFXI and I did not find it neither boring or repetitive. I found party play dynamic and fun in FFXI. Depending on the party setups the leveling experience could change alot from group to group. However, what makes it less than enjoyable in FFXIV presently is the lack of variety provided by the class system. No real defined classes and roles. Though 1.18 took great strides towards changing that.

I do believe that there should be more viable alternative methods to leveling, both for solo and party play. While FFXI offered other methods to gain small amounts of additonal EXP thats all they were, small amounts. Several hours in Campaign or a level 8 Besieged would not yeild more than 2k exp so I always felt that was not a great representation of the effort put in. So I would like to see in this game offer better rewards for events outside of "old school" grinds.

This is a good summary of what I think as well. Personally, I thought the grind parties in FFXI were a lot of fun. Yes, I was an FFXI player many years ago but I was also a WoW player, a Rift player, an Aion player, Warhammer, Ragnarok, Age of Conan, web-based, free to play, etc. In short I've pretty much seen it all, and I still think that grind parties should be one of the main methods to gain ranks.

So far, FFXIV has been very good about not making grind parties the only way to level. You have leves, behest, quests, and dungeons with possibly hamlet-defense/beseiged type events in the future and maybe even PvP. As long as SE keeps a good balance there should not be any problems with grind parties being a good, if not the best, method for leveling.