XIV: P2P or F2P? XI never has Cash Shop, why XIV has?

[Noshpan]

There's also 2 minions currently (if my memory serves me right) and the Sleipnir mount. For now....

Don't forget services such as name change (being the newest addition), fantasia and world server transfers! Though, personally, while I wouldn't mind having the Sleipnir mount and the minions, I'm more apt to use the name change/ fantasia/ transfer services part of the cash shop. And there are a minority who would rather that even those services not be available.

[dragorian]

ffxi did have a cash shop if you were the lucky few that bought an pendent from the online store you got an in game item to match and they been doing for some time now so to all you haters out there get use to it or go play a game that do not have some form of cash shop

[Shioban]

Win, to have success, what is sucess? Largely opinion. Are you trying to be dense?

There may be a popularly accepted term, that does not mean other terms can -not- be allowed. So long as you give a honest interpretation.

Yet again, go back and google what Pay to Win is. Please read more than one web-page, article or journal on what the gaming community usually means by pay-to-win, you'll find that every single result says some form of;

Payment for Progress. This means, in-game currencies, point progression boosts, content access, items that aid game progression.

It doesn't take a developer or a genius to figure that out, you're PAYING TO WIN if it's pay-to-win. Obtaining a minion designed FOR a cash-shop, by paying for it is not winning.

The only occasion this would be true was if the case wasl "Fish 200 Titanic Saw-fish to unlock; the ability to purchase a minion for £5!!"




Minions/Vanity do NOT aid progress, you're trying to argue terminology and twist it for your own needs, that's not how things work.

You can't say "Oh, but officer the light was Red! Red can sometimes mean excitement or exhilaration or lust, therefore it would make sense that I start driving!".

In before you say it's open for interpenetration differently, go back and Google once more pay-to-win and you'll find thousands of articles, pages, forums and even citable sources that prove otherwise.

[Roris]

Urban Dictionary was the only result?
Please check again, being obstinate for the sake of safe guarding your own ideals isn't a good indication of "What the community thinks Pay to Win is"

I did read and the consensus is that an advantage is an advantage, while some argue that this mostly only applies to PvE and PvP content, that is the fighting whether it be mobs or players, a lot also argue that the definition of winning encompasses a lot of things outside PvE and PvP. On that side a lot argue that having exclusive items that can only be obtained with money also provides an advantage, because in a way you are indeed above the rest in vanity count. IE. non cash shop consumer can only have 10 mounts , cash shop consumer can have 11 mounts, that's still 1 above the rest. ARR already has this advantage/convenience with extra retainers and has cash shop exclusive items.

So basically, what a lot of people have already told you.

[Shougun]

Yet again, go back and google what Pay to Win is. Please read more than one web-page, article or journal on what the gaming community usually means by pay-to-win, you'll find that every single result says some form of;

Payment for Progress. This means, in-game currencies, point progression boosts, content access, items that aid game progression.

It doesn't take a developer or a genius to figure that out, you're PAYING TO WIN if it's pay-to-win. Obtaining a minion designed FOR a cash-shop, by paying for it is not winning.

The only occasion this would be true was if the case wasl "Fish 200 Titanic Saw-fish to unlock; the ability to purchase a minion for £5!!"


Minions/Vanity do NOT aid progress, you're trying to argue terminology and twist it for your own needs, that's now how things work.

You can't say "Oh, but officer the light was red! Red can sometimes mean excitement or exhilaration or lust, therefore it would make sense that I start driving!".

Not really for my needs, I don't see SE removing it because of some sudden change in popular definition. Just that arguing that people cannot interpret it a certain way are wrong, they're not wrong just they're not the common factor.

The issue lies in poor delineation, some how certain contents are not contents. Can you not progress on a list of items, winning when you get that mount? I know how SE is defining pay to win and it is different than some people in the forums, mostly due to a hard to clearly define without being verbose point of what is what. "No it is easy, progress is coil - not earning mounts" But see, you can know that is not true for some people - you're not respecting their perspective when you force a simple and lose meaning and use as a way to beat them upside the head with it.

Also again, you know that majority usage does not mean -only- usage.

Also your last example is not very good, because in that case the law forces you to accept common definition - here you are talking to people and if you want to understand them you cannot take legitimate interpretations and say they're wrong. It is fair to say they are not common though.

If not obvious since it appears you're getting a bit haughty - I'm not saying you're wrong in popular interpretation I'm saying there is an area of movement in language and fair rediscovery that people are completely shutting down rather than getting to the point of it.

[Shioban]

I did read and the consensus is that an advantage is an advantage

Vanity is not considered an advantage, as it's not aiding progression.
Yes you can't obtain certain vanity items without paying for it, yes other people can obtain if you can't afford/don't want to pay for it.

BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING. My only point is that it's NOT pay-to-win.

It's not providing a gameplay advantage, in the case of ARR this would be;

STATISTICS.

What uses statistics?




Anything that affects or improves these statistics is considered to aid progression.

The current minions/mounts DO NOT AID PROGRESSION, therefore it is not considered pay-to-win by any basic MMO standard.


It's simply an "I want to obtain this, but I don't want to pay for it".

Is that bad in some ways? Yes most definitely, I completely agree it's not a good idea.

Is it pay-to-win? Absolutely not.

If not obvious since it appears you're getting a bit haughty - I'm not saying you're wrong in popular interpretation I'm saying there is an area of movement in language and fair rediscovery that people are completely shutting down rather than getting to the point of it.

No, you're arguing semantics for the sake of your own argument.

You're trying to flip the generaly accepted term of pay-to-win, that's all I'm arguing.


Cash-shops for the most part are more of a con than a pro, but you can't chop and change a definition for your own liking.

Just because you don't consider it an advantage so doesn't mean it isn't, so there goes that entire argument. Again, an advantage is an advantage, whether it provides a stat increase in PvE/PvP or not. Besides mount and minion count is a stat in their respective guides, and it is indeed progression towards having the max amount of vanity items obtainable, so there you go.

If that's what you want to believe, no matter how ridiculous it is. Be my guest.

But they provide no advantage to gameplay, therefore are not considered pay-to-win.

If we were playing a Barbie MMO where the main goal was to obtain as many bows and dresses for your Burmese cat as possible, then yes I'd completley agree.

[Roris]

Vanity is not considered an advantage, as it's not aiding progression.

Just because you don't consider it an advantage so doesn't mean it isn't, so there goes that entire argument. Again, an advantage is an advantage, whether it provides a stat increase only in PvE/PvP or not. Besides mount and minion count is a stat in their respective guides, and it is indeed progression towards having the max amount of vanity items obtainable, so there you go.

Vanity is not considered an advantage, as it's not aiding progression.

Just because your gameplay doesn't involve collecting minions, mounts and other vanity items doesn't mean it's not part of the gameplay too. If they didn't want us to collect all the vanity stuff, then why put their systems and so many of them in the game in the first place, including guides to track the progress towards obtaining all of them?

Checkmate cash shopists.

[Jacost]

Vanity isn't an advantage. The goals of FFXIV are to clear the dungeons and claim the rewards with which to clear more dungeons; anything aside from that is a side activity. If collecting minions is your goal, good for you but that's not FFXIV, that's a completely different game that you made up. You don't get to complain when the medium you're using to play some game of your own changes such that it's more difficult to do so; that's never what it was meant for.

FFXIV is a themepark, not a sandbox.

[Vondoomervil]

Because I asked for the cash shop. You don't have to agree, Doesn't matter. I got my way, someone has to lose.

[Roris]

FFXIV is a themepark, not a sandbox.

Conveniently, shops and paying extra for stuff that's already in the themepark and that the admission fee doesn't cover is an integral part of them.