Which classes do you think need adjustments?

[ViviAnimus]

A Summoner has a lot more freedom to move, it's that simple. As a BLM moving means not casting which means it can accumulate to quite a lot of spells that are missed. Even moving a little accumulates over the long run. Summoners on the other hand when they have to move can use Ruin II. You don't have to spam it, but you don't lose DPS whereas a BLM you do. While you move as a SMN your pet is still attacking, your dots are still going, and you just have to use ruin II to make up for the damage. Black Mages on the other hand, when having to move, miss out on a lot of spells if movement is excessive. You can negate movement by using cooldowns and so on, but the options are limited. We do have AE which is a great move, but even when using that, you still miss out on spells casted. Summoner doesn't have this problem or it's much rarer because it spends a lot of time using ruin which can easily be replaced with ruin II. Fair enough, you'll have to apply dots too, but in comparison to BLM, it's a laugh, really.

[StouterTaru]

The exact same movement restrictions black mage have also applies to summoner. Except that Summoners don't have Aetherial Manipulation to cross great distances within one GCD window.

They're not the exact same, over half of SMN spell casts are instant vs around 10% of BLM casts.

AM can't be used in the middle of a cast, so you're going to have to be moving out of the death zone anyway, making it extremely situational.

Nailed it, and anyone who tries to argue burst damage is invalid, what am i bursting down a lvl 50 mob in the open world? No, I raid coils and the fights are over 10 minutes long, all that matters is sustained overall dps, utility, and survivability which the Dragoon comes in last in each category.

So there are zero times when an add needs to be blown up asap, or a boss needs a phase push at a specific times in coil?

[Jollyy5]

So there are zero times when an add needs to be blown up asap, or a boss needs a phase push at a specific times in coil?

People always keep saying how DRG burst is godlike, which it really isn't, as a greased up Monk can outburst you, which they usually are since adds tend to show up while they are greased and ready to go more often than not, Bard can also get to max DPS faster. However, DRGs will have the highest burst if they have Blood for Blood available, but that would mean sitting on it until mobs/adds show up, which will hurt our already unimpressive sustained DPS even more.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

They're not the exact same, over half of SMN spell casts are instant vs around 10% of BLM casts.

AM can't be used in the middle of a cast, so you're going to have to be moving out of the death zone anyway, making it extremely situational.

It's roughly the same. If you know the mechanics, you can save a firestarter proc to for movement. Or depending on the content, you can use one to move prematurely to your destination.

Dodging AoEs mid-cast also applies to summoners, mind you. With or without aetherial manipulation. For both classes it means dps loss. Although the dps loss on summoners vary far more than for Black Mage.

[Skeith-Adeline]

snip

If a BLM and a SMN both have to move for 2-3 seconds, who loses more DPS? As somebody mentioned, you've your pet and any pre-existing DoTs ticking + your Ruin 2s. Unless we hold a proc–which already is a DPS loss–or use swiftcast(which you have too), we're losing DPS. We only have Scathe, which is laughable. If we were to make Scathe a viable option for movement as much as a SMN, that'd be... awesome, but OP lol.

Yes we have AM, but unless a party member is where we need to go, we either proc it up or Scathe. Unlike you, the only DPS continuing if we stop casting is Thunder.

[StouterTaru]

People always keep saying how DRG burst is godlike, which it really isn't, as a greased up Monk can outburst you, which they usually are since adds tend to show up while they are greased and ready to go more often than not, Bard can also get to max DPS faster. However, DRGs will have the highest burst if they have Blood for Blood available, but that would mean sitting on it until mobs/adds show up, which will hurt our already unimpressive sustained DPS even more.

I never said it was godlike, just a step above any other dps, the same way that monk dps on a training dummy is a step above dragoon. If you up dragoon training dummy dps to that of monk or higher, then it would be godlike. Dragoon is getting a buff in just over a week, wait for that before you start saying it needs further adjustment.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

If a BLM and a SMN both have to move for 2-3 seconds, who loses more DPS? As somebody mentioned, you've your pet and any pre-existing DoTs ticking + your Ruin 2s. Unless we hold a proc–which already is a DPS loss–or use swiftcast(which you have too), we're losing DPS. We only have Scathe, which is laughable. If we were to make Scathe a viable option for movement as much as a SMN, that'd be... awesome, but OP lol.

Yes we have AM, but unless a party member is where we need to go, we either proc it up or Scathe. Unlike you, the only DPS continuing if we stop casting is Thunder.

I mentioned in another post that the movement window DPS loss on summoner varies a lot. Worst case scenario would be that all DoTs are falling off, at least one aetherflow stack remaining and Aetherflow about to go off CD. This will result in a 4-5s delay on applying DoTs. Another second for Bio to be applied before you can fester for full potency. While waiting to fester for that you also lose time on Aetherflow which staggers your MP regeneration flow for a bit as well as a dps loss.

But yeah, that's the worst case scenario and would involve the most DPS loss. Least DPS loss would be if all DoTs are freshly on and you don't lose time on Aetherflow.

This same rule applies to Black Mage, however:
If you have a proc ready, you don't lose DPS if you move for 2-3 seconds. If you don't have one ready and Scathe instead, you may lose a little or a lot of potency. This highly depends on whether you are in Umbral Ice or in Astral Fire.

So in both best scenario's for both classes:
Black mages lose no potency at all - They are on GCD from a firestarter proc anyway and can easily move for a bit.
Summoners consume a bit more MP for that 80 potency or simply lose out on that 80 potency.

In worst case scenario's for both classes:
For Black Mage that would be moving without proc. But this also depends on whether you can squeeze in a Scathe or not without hurting your time in Astral Fire.
For Summoner it has a gigantic snowball effect as mentioned above. It's a lot of small DPS losses left and right that will build up a lot of losses in the end.

[Sequora]

As others have mentioned, SMN is much more limited as far as movement then people think. SMN is having very noticable MP constraints in 2.4. In pretty much any one of the new fights a SMN using his/her optimal rotation (weaving in ruin II for GCDs and using miasma II with contagion), is going to result in the SMN becoming MP starved. Using ruin II during a dodge is going to drain you even faster. If your DoTs are falling off and you have to move, it is also going to result in a DPS loss.

[Skeith-Adeline]

IF I have a proc ready. IF is the huge word. IF I am holding a Proc, I'm ALREADY losing DPS unless RNG was kind and gave me a proc the instant a mechanic forcing us to move applies. Also, Ruin 2 isn't the only thing going for your mobility. Already mentioned the whole DoTs + Egi thing. I've never had an instance in which all of my dots fell off with in 2-3 seconds, ever, and I can't think of any mechanics that force me to move longer than that.

About the Mana issues, I do think they need an Energydrain buff, but I don't see the problem with using an Hi-Elixir with 2 Energy Drains. Each class must adjust accordingly and if they can't, they player must be focused first before the job.

[Skeith-Adeline]

What is everybody's opinion on Monks and Bards?