Spellcasting in PvP

[Atreus]

Meanwhile the most notable trait drg possess are their horrendous magic defense. Yet I don't see the threads of outrage calling for a buff of drg nearly as much (truth be told I havent seen one at all) as these blm threads pop up.

Agreed with pretty much every point, though I'm pretty sure DRG's crappy magic defense doesn't translate into PvP with how defense is removed as a stat. So that's a plus right? 8D Certainly could use more utility though, but that's another thread.

[Dimitrii]

Which dps job can't murder someone in 4-5 GCD if left unmolested? And since when it it 4-5 GCD instead of 3?

Man you are just arguing semantics at this point. The fact remains that currently blm is the ONLY job capable of killing another job that fast without relying on any pvp or off gcd abilities WHATSOEVER in their damage burst. They will kill you that fast using only abilities that are readily available to them in seconds as they are gcd spells. There is no waiting a min and a half or more for those abilities to become available for use again like with the other dps. Are you really gonna sit there and tell people with a straight face that brd smn drg and monk can put out that much dmg in that short amount of gcd rotations with just their standard gcd abilities?

Edit: I'm not trying to argue with you for the sake sowing conflict. I'm just trying to explain to you that the mechanics of the job are what are making it necessary to place such restrictions in their casting. You cannot simply remove that restriction without first addressing the side effects the change would have on the job given its mechanics.

[Dimitrii]

DRG's crappy magic defense doesn't translate into PvP with how defense is removed as a stat. So that's a plus right? 8D Certainly could use more utility though, but that's another thread.

Yeah I believe you're right so that at least is a plus. Its hard to tell though cause a blm's nuke hurts either way lol.

[Kassiekane]

...and actually play the job first before commenting.

Challenge completed.

You nor any other non summoner dps will ever reach the total dmg a highly skilled summoner can for the simple fact that no job is capable of compiling damage across multiple targets the way summoner can.

This is exactly my point. Even if a black mage does not get touched for most of the match, their dps ceiling is still lower than a class that can freecast most of its abilities. You are also underestimating how lethal dots can be when you have melees and tanks to worry about, since a summoner can pretty much negate aoe heals while melees deal the killing blow.

You're comparing a job who's bulk of damage accumulates over time and across multiple targets to one who can and will kill you in as few as 3 gcd's should they be lucky with their procs.

No, it took me an average of 7-9 gcd's to get anyone low enough for a kill (melees usually took the finishing blow). Black mage's ST damage is pure RNG, and even with good luck it still isn't some 'blow up the healer' kind of thing, and it shouldn't be, but at the same time it doesn't deserve to be a free kill. How boring is it to play a class in which your only defense is to run away?
Most of that damage came from flare; I continuously used 3-4 flares in a row under raging strikes and did some serious damage across a whole party of adders bubbling a flag.... but no one died. If I just used fire 1/3 for the entirety of the match I wouldn't have gotten that score. Black mage is not the threat you make it out to be.

[StouterTaru]

Man you are just arguing semantics at this point. The fact remains that currently blm is the ONLY job capable of killing another job that fast without relying on any pvp or off gcd abilities WHATSOEVER in their damage burst.

You can't ignore off GCD abilities, if a mnk spams their OGCD abilities they will have one up every 5-6 GCD on average, drg is every 3-4 GCD not including their dink ranged PvP move, brd has bloodletter and misery end on very short recast as well as a few others. And that 5-6 and 3-4 is with 100% combat time unmolested for the entire FL.

[Dimitrii]

You can't ignore off GCD abilities, if a mnk spams their OGCD abilities they will have one up every 5-6 GCD on average, drg is every 3-4 GCD not including their dink ranged PvP move, brd has bloodletter and misery end on very short recast as well as a few others. And that 5-6 and 3-4 is with 100% combat time unmolested for the entire FL.

Huh?

Monk OGCD abilities:
Howling Fist: 60 sec recast
Steel Peak: 60 sec recast

Dragoon OGCD abilities:
Jump: 40 sec recast
Spineshatter Dive: 60 sec recast
Dragon fire Dive:120 Sec recast

The gcd is 2.5 seconds. Where are you getting this average of monks having an ogcd every 5 to 6 gcd and drg a whopping every 3 to 4 gcd?

[Dimitrii]

Even if you add mercy stroke (90 sec cooldown) and the pvp abilities which can be brought down to at most 60 sec recast I don't see how you are bursting every 3 to 4 gcd on drg and 5 to 6 gcd on monk. It sounds to me like you are weaving in an ogcd ability every 3 to 4 gcd on drg but this isn't pve and that's not what I'm talking about when I refer to killing someone with burst dmg in pvp.

[StouterTaru]

The gcd is 2.5 seconds. Where are you getting this average of monks having an ogcd every 5 to 6 gcd and drg a whopping every 3 to 4 gcd?

Axe Kick 150 sec
Somersalt 60 sec
Howling Fist 60 sec
Steel Peak 60 sec
Shoulder Tackle 90 sec
Mercy Stroke 90 sec

Averages out to about 12.7 seconds. Sure you won't be able to use Shoulder Tackle and Mercy Stroke immediately every time they are up, but you should be able to in 10-15 seconds. Plus long recast insta-GL3 and long recast three moves to GL3.

Jump 40 sec
Spineshatter 60 sec
Dragonfire 120 sec
Impulse Rush 120 sec
Skewer 60 sec
Leg Sweep 30 sec

Averages out to about 8 seconds. Plus life surge for crit and power surge for jumps.

[Arkenne]

Most of those are a pretty bad ideas on account of them being RNG. You do NOT want interrupt mechanics governed by RNG. Ever. That makes for entirely random matches with random balance. No. What you want is a controllable, skillful method of interrupting. Something that can be directly controlled by the player who's trying to interrupt the cast.
I'd actually like to see exactly what we have now, but with some minor tweaks:
1: Autoattacks no longer interrupt. Ever.

Well, first than nothing, what I posted werent suggestion, but rather asking you guys what is it you were looking for, for clarification's sake.
Seems I hit the nail, looking at your 1st point.

[Arkenne]

I continuously used 3-4 flares in a row under raging strikes and did some serious damage across a whole party of adders bubbling a flag.... but no one died. If I just used fire 1/3 for the entirety of the match I wouldn't have gotten that score. Black mage is not the threat you make it out to be.

Uhm... Im trying to be impartial about this but, didnt you just sink your own boat? 1 single person, causing a very heavy damage on a full party? to 8 people, by him/herself alone? Do correct me if Im missing something but this is the very reason as of why people dont want to leave BLMs alone and gives them priority over all.


No cast interruption at all is a great deal of a buff you guys are asking for, what is it you are willing to give in exchange?