Spellcasting in PvP

[Dimitrii]

No cast interruption at all is a great deal of a buff you guys are asking for, what is it you are willing to give in exchange?

It's what I been trying to explain for two pages now. But apparently blm is somehow a significantly weaker dps than all the other dps and most especially weaker than smn according to some people here. I mean if people truly believe something as baseless as this then there is literally no point in continuing to debate It with them any longer.

[Kassiekane]

Uhm... Im trying to be impartial about this but, didnt you just sink your own boat? 1 single person, causing a very heavy damage on a full party? to 8 people, by him/herself alone? Do correct me if Im missing something but this is the very reason as of why people dont want to leave BLMs alone and gives them priority over all.


No cast interruption at all is a great deal of a buff you guys are asking for, what is it you are willing to give in exchange?

The point I was trying to make is that even with flare I cannot outdo a summoner. I also am not implying that black mages should be able to freecast aoe attacks either. It is the single target self-defense aspect that makes blm painful to play. I'm asking to be able to go toe-to-toe with another dps should the encounter spawn itself. I am not asking to able to freecast every ability. No boost in dps, no cc buff, no better aoes. Just a fighting chance against 1 dps.

[Arkenne]

The point I was trying to make is that even with flare I cannot outdo a summoner. I also am not implying that black mages should be able to freecast aoe attacks either. It is the single target self-defense aspect that makes blm painful to play. I'm asking to be able to go toe-to-toe with another dps should the encounter spawn itself. I am not asking to able to freecast every ability. No boost in dps, no cc buff, no better aoes. Just a fighting chance against 1 dps.

that makes things a lot simpler indeed

[HitoYuudai]

The point I was trying to make is that even with flare I cannot outdo a summoner. I also am not implying that black mages should be able to freecast aoe attacks either. It is the single target self-defense aspect that makes blm painful to play. I'm asking to be able to go toe-to-toe with another dps should the encounter spawn itself. I am not asking to able to freecast every ability. No boost in dps, no cc buff, no better aoes. Just a fighting chance against 1 dps.

pretty much this ^
+1

[Hiruke]

I don't really know if casters are balanced or not, but I can tell you they aren't particularly fun to play in PvP (for me). While I mostly do BLM or SMN in PvE, I now pretty much universally go WAR to PvP. I feel like I have some kind of purpose, and won't just instantly die all the time. If you could "guard" your BLMs (your team blocks other teams from getting to your BLMs to begin with), I guess it would be better. But since any hit interrupts, and you can't cast basically anything while moving, you're like this little beacon that everyone wants to snuff out almost as bad as the healers. If you go on the move and try to escape basically any dps as a BLM, well, you're dead. What are you going to do? Scathe that guy? Yeah ok. Nevermind how annoying it is that Scathe was nerfed in PvE because they didn't want it to be too strong in PvE, thus lowering BLM's mobile dps even further, and you've got a real winner going on there. Situationally I'm sure BLMs are amazing, but I'm not sure how many people at this point are willing to let BLMs run around and do whatever they please. More than likely the melee dps are going to jump you and that's the end of it.

For Frontlines, where it's supposed to be super casual and fun, I don't see your average BLM or SMN being enticed into playing. Honestly, it's been a long time since casters seemed very effective in FL. I've been doing a lot of matches this past week after a long break, and I've never seen a caster significantly impact the flow of the fights. Usually it has come down to, who can obliterate the other group's healers first (assuming roughly even numbers for each group), which typically amounts to tanks harassing the healers while melee dps bury them (or the melee dps bury their ranged guys while the healers run for their lives from the tanks - later bards/black mages, no heals for you).

For such a movement heavy game, going double or triple for PvP, it's hilarious to see a particular job (BLM) so severely hindered by movement as to be pretty much ineffective without support (other players stunning people running for the BLM, or tons of shiny healers to distract attention from the BLM). Certainly if someone makes a concerted effort to run from you, a BLM isn't killing anything period. Even my WAR can run someone down if I choose to. No one is worried about your Scathe barrage. No one.

Speaking of no one, no one seems to be able to offer a good answer to either of these questions:

1) Why can't BLM be allowed to move while casting Fire 1 or Blizzard 1? Sure, root them for Fire 2/3 and Blizzard 2/3, but you can't even cast the most basic spell on the move? Meh.

2) Why isn't cast time increased instead of interrupted when being hit? FFXIV tries to copy everything else from WoW, even down to the cash shop - why not this too?

[Zagam]

cut

Like a few are starting to see you really are talking out your ass. And for someone who plays a lot you sure don't pay attention, I've fought with you and against you for hundreds of matches, I only play blm in pvp but yet you want to sit their and be condescending? And I know you play bard but that doesn't mean a bard cant reach 200k, maybe you should actually look at the scores after a match, there are a few bards on primal that break 150-200k regularly, same with smn, but yet blm somehow is the big bad monster. Blm is the ONLY job that is fundamentally nerfed before even setting in but that doesn't stop me from playing it, and yes when im left alone I break records easily but if you let a blm cast you deserve it. But lets take SC away because thats just too much, lets nerf scathe because blm is just to powerful running now?

Honestly I agree with some and disagree with other points you make but you really need to stop being so arrogant.

[Dimitrii]

If i came across as condescending I apologize. Its just becomes frustrating to read people post about how ineffective, weak, or otherwise useless blm is in pvp when I have seen tons of opposing blms demonstrating the complete opposite. Also, while I may play drg 50% of the time the other 50% of the time I'm on whm so I'm not unsympathetic to the irritation that interrupts due to physical dmg can cause as I'll generally have 3 or more people beating on me most times.

Ultimately whm sch blm and to a lesser extent smn (as they are nowhere near as prioritized as the other 3 jobs) are not jobs that are gonna be suitable for everyone in pvp cause they generally require a higher lvl of skill and tactical/improvisational coordination/reaction to be able to succeed in. Its what happens when you take jobs that were originally designed for pve situations in mind and then try to put them in pvp scenarios. The factors that are present in pve which prevent jobs like whm and blm from being overpowered (i.e constantly having to disrupt your casting to dodge aoe attacks which deal extremely heavy dmg) don't always exist in pvp which is why other methods have to be created to keep them in check. Also keep in mind that the jobs are balanced around their performance in a team environment. Otherwise we wouldnt all be at the mercy of a skilled pld in a one on one scenario. Both wolves den and frontlines are team based matches. There are no 1 vs 1 pvp game modes.

I don't wanna sound condescending or unsympathetic but to say that blm cannot be effective as is in pvp is just something I'll never agree with as I have seen it proven otherwise countless times. You can argue its not as fun as other jobs because of the way it forces players to adapt to a certain playstyle that they arent accustomed to or perhaps dont even wanna play but the job as presently constituted does work in team pvp. That said its also not unreasonable to modify a job should a majority of the playerbase feel that the job as is is unenjoyable to play so long as they can preserve some sort of balance after the modification. On that matter at least we can all agree.

P.S I actually do not play brd in pvp no. I only play whm, drg, mnk (when opposing schs become a problem), and rarely smn. I will also admit I do not generally ever look at the total dmg tally at the end of matches. I always look at the total kills tally but never total dmg lol.

[kisada]

Like a few are starting to see you really are talking out your ass. And for someone who plays a lot you sure don't pay attention, I've fought with you and against you for hundreds of matches, I only play blm in pvp but yet you want to sit their and be condescending? And I know you play bard but that doesn't mean a bard cant reach 200k, maybe you should actually look at the scores after a match, there are a few bards on primal that break 150-200k regularly, same with smn, but yet blm somehow is the big bad monster. Blm is the ONLY job that is fundamentally nerfed before even setting in but that doesn't stop me from playing it, and yes when im left alone I break records easily but if you let a blm cast you deserve it. But lets take SC away because thats just too much, lets nerf scathe because blm is just to powerful running now?

Honestly I agree with some and disagree with other points you make but you really need to stop being so arrogant.

No blm i know that's worth their salt would consider themselves anything but overpowered. Literally every blm i pre-party with and go into wd or fl goes in thinking they are dominant. This narrative that blms are at a fundamental disadvantage completely ignores the words "trade-off" over and over. People just need to know what they are doing, and for pvp that generally means converting your role from pure DD into support/finisher.


BRD loses a ton of effectiveness without buffs. SMN is actually super OP but their finishing/damage abilities take a huge hit without aetherflow stacks. But BLM isn't hindered by that and they have the ability to ramp up extremely quickly if the opposing team is dumb enough not to key in on them. Again, it's about trade-offs, not classes being fundamentally disadvantaged.

[StouterTaru]

OK so last two posts are basically, "I'm not trying to be condescending, just have more skill," and "you're not at a disadvantage, just don't be attacked."

There isn't enough skill to overcome an attack with the abilities given to a BLM in PvP. Your choices are run away and scathe, run around and get saved by a teammate while using scathe, or go toe to toe and die unless you have multiple skills up and even then it's a crapshoot. How does skill overcome being attacked with the tools available to BLM?

-Scathe is weak damage, the only spell you will get off most the time(and it's like a melee attack, it can fail if the attacker is circling you)
-Manawall is 2 shadows, that will buy you one GCD, 45 second recast
-Aetheric Burst is a useful slow and damage against a melee, but every dps has multiple OGCD abilities that can keep you from casting, plus simply running behind during a cast is always an option, 150 second recast
-Equanimity can keep physical damage from interrupting, but again you can still simply run behind the BLM, 180 second recast
-Nightwing is a nice instant sleep, only delaying the inevitable. The problem with sleep is that they wake up after one attack or Purify, 180 second recast
-Swift Cast is great for a 2nd sleep if they use purify, but still only a stall tactic, 60 second recast
-Lethargy is another stall tactic, one of the best skills for BLM, 30 second recast

A stun or fluid aura would be infinitely more useful

[Dimitrii]

A stun or fluid aura would be infinitely more useful

Oh really that's all? Well stun and fluid aura certainly would compliment sleep, night wing, blizzard II, lethargy, freeze, manawall, manaward, aetherial manipulation, aetheric burst, sprint, equanimity, swiftcast and surecast. A Stun ability, a knockback ability and a pacification ability are the only cc abilities you dont have access to so its only natural that blm get each of these to round out the set as well.

On a serious note the only thing I will agree with you is that blm should just get the ability to free cast, but only at the cost of nerfing firestarter activation rate plus losing several of those cc abilities you have so that this thread and all threads like this die already. Despite how useless you feel your own cc abilities are the fact remains that the ppl who currently are successful using blm in pvp atm would become untouchable gods should they keep them with the buff. There is no way to sugar coat this but the reality is we don't all possess the same skill lvl in anything in life. Just buffing stuff to compensate for lower skill without having any regard on how the change will affect ppl who have otherwise been dominant before the buff will just lead to greater imbalance.

Anyway there is no point arguing this further cause the concept of trade off seems to be completely lost in this discussion. You are exceedingly weak in some aspects of your job due to you being exceedingly strong in other aspects. SE just needs to make blm the caster version of bard already so we can end this topic. Anybody who reads your posts about how ineffective your cc abilities are would think melee dps have purify on 10 second cooldowns. Idk how you can find blizzard II to be so useless when as a whm I've used that ability countless times to delay the hordes of dps after my head and keep myself alive.