The Discrimination Factor of Solo/party to Casual/Hardcore respectively.

[Preypacer]

And there's the rub: It was marketed to people with little time - Guildleves.

Guildleves were conceived for people who don't have a lot of time. The entire game was not. Even when Tanaka was in charge, it was stated that they acknowledged both player types would be populating the game and wanted to give both content to enjoy in their preferred style.

Yes, it's changing and moving away from guildleves now. But does that mean that all the people with less time that purchased the game before these changes should be SOL? I don't think so at all.

Not so. The game is not "moving away from Guildleves". They're still in the game, they're still going to be in the game, they're still going to be developed and added on to.

All Yoshi has said is that Guildleves will no longer be the game's primary means of progress. They are still and will continue to be a good way for people with little time to play to log in and make some progress doing their own leves and/or perhaps teaming up to help others with theirs.

It's not an outlandish request that the developers not forget the group that exists within the MMO genre that have full-time jobs, kids, etc., especially when those people bought the game expecting content that can be jumped right into and enjoyed without needing to dedicate your life to it. An easy and streamlined grouping system is just one aspect where the timesink can be removed.

They haven't forgotten them. They have Guildleves and, again, will be adding more casual-focused content down the road. You can teleport to any Aetheryte crystal you've been to at least once, and people who've already been there can give you a "taxi ride" as it were so you don't have to get there on foot even once to activate it.

There's nothing wrong with a system that allows players to more easily and swiftly assemble a group (even from randomly-selected people). With an already in-place teleportation system, however, and chocobos coming in the next patch, there's no need to implement a system that directly teleports you to the destination.

[Alym]

Not so. The game is not "moving away from Guildleves". They're still in the game, they're still going to be in the game, they're still going to be developed and added on to.

All Yoshi has said is that Guildleves will no longer be the game's primary means of progress. They are still and will continue to be a good way for people with little time to play to log in and make some progress doing their own leves and/or perhaps teaming up to help others with theirs.

So they're not moving away from guildleves as the primary content but yet that's what Yoshi said they were doing?

They haven't forgotten them. They have Guildleves and, again, will be adding more casual-focused content down the road. You can teleport to any Aetheryte crystal you've been to at least once, and people who've already been there can give you a "taxi ride" as it were so you don't have to get there on foot even once to activate it.

There's nothing wrong with a system that allows players to more easily and swiftly assemble a group (even from randomly-selected people). With an already in-place teleportation system, however, and chocobos coming in the next patch, there's no need to implement a system that directly teleports you to the destination.

I never mentioned teleporting to a camp for partying, simply the means to create a group faster and streamlining the process. As it stands, if you could get a party together for the 25 dungeon, everyone just needs to teleport anywhere around camp tranquil and run for 2 minutes. The issue isn't travel - it's the system used to put the group together. Groups shouldn't be exclusive to the people with the time to shout/look longer/have more time to make friends in game.

[mysterytaru]

So they're not moving away from guildleves as the primary content but yet that's what Yoshi said they were doing?



I never mentioned teleporting to a camp for partying, simply the means to create a group faster and streamlining the process. As it stands, if you could get a party together for the 25 dungeon, everyone just needs to teleport anywhere around camp tranquil and run for 2 minutes. The issue isn't travel - it's the system used to put the group together. Groups shouldn't be exclusive to the people with the time to shout/look longer/have more time to make friends in game.

"As a primary means of progress" means they're not for party play. They're for solo/casual play. The game up until now centered solely on leves and behests as a means of ranking up *for everyone*. All Yoshi is doing is targeting them at solo/casuals now, thus "moving away from them" as main focus of the game. It's not hard to understand unless you don't want to understand.

This is why Civil Rights took so long to achieve people, we're not thinking outside the box.

Btw, this is such a invalid comparison as to be insulting. Comparing civil rights to casual players wanting to be spoon fed and given the same reward as those who put more into the game is the height of ignorance and arrogance.

[MeowyWowie]

The fact that even 4 people liked this comment proves how elitist and snobbish the average forum goers are in this community

I didn't "like" the OP but not because I don't want to see a dungeon finder implemented. It's just something that I will likely never use and doesn't interest me.

However, I do believe that all players, casual, hardcore, mediocore, whatever, should have access to all of the content a game has. Just because a casual player can access the same content as you does not mean that they will progress as fast as you would if you were a hardcore player. I don't see why a casual player doing the same content as a hardcore player would offend anyone, it's not you playing so who cares.

Overall, I personally don't care if they add a dungeon finder or not. But for the sake of keeping casual players open to all content, I don't see it being a bad idea. Although if they do implement it, I just hope they don't go cross-server dungeon finder. The reason being, it's better to play within your own community. It's much more fun to play with people that you know you will see around the game world day in and day out, rather than someone you may meet only once and never speak to them again. It helps build a sense of community and forge friendships, something the game is terribly lacking.

Dungeon finder is a good idea for casuals, though it will not affect me at all if they decide to add it or not.

[Alym]

"As a primary means of progress" means they're not for party play. They're for solo/casual play. The game up until now centered solely on leves and behests as a means of ranking up *for everyone*. All Yoshi is doing is targeting them at solo/casuals now, thus "moving away from them" as main focus of the game. It's not hard to understand unless you don't want to understand.

Unfortunately, you're the one not understanding the point of my posts or the entire thread.

Why does "casual" content have to be solo content? Guildleves were "casual" party content and now they're moving to "casual" solo content. Why can't a system be built to include players with smaller amounts of time into group content? How would this "dumb down the game?"

Now you may understand why guildleves are being pushed aside. You now may also understand why a fix for this would be a more streamlined system to put a party together. If a player can play for 1 hour and 30 minutes and a dungeon takes 1 hour to complete, why can't putting a party together be done in 15 minutes and travel take 15 minutes? What does this do to harm the game?

As it stands, only players with a lot of time can participate in this content despite the fact that everyone purchased the same game. If the majority of people can't participate due to kids, work, or school as it currently stands, wouldn't the game only stand to gain subs by making it more accessible? Without a streamlined system, a player with 1.5 hours may spend half of that, easily, just looking for a party to go the dungeon with.

I'm afraid the only thing i don't understand is the resistance to making streamlined systems so we can all get to the actual challenging content in less time. Why is it that you feel only players who can spend their whole life on the game deserve to participate in a dungeon?

[mysterytaru]

Unfortunately, you're the one not understanding the point of my posts or the entire thread.

Why does "casual" content have to be solo content? Guildleves were "casual" party content and now they're moving to "casual" solo content. Why can't a system be built to include players with smaller amounts of time into group content? How would this "dumb down the game?"

Now you may understand why guildleves are being pushed aside. You now may also understand why a fix for this would be a more streamlined system to put a party together. If a player can play for 1 hour and 30 minutes and a dungeon takes 1 hour to complete, why can't putting a party together be done in 15 minutes and travel take 15 minutes? What does this do to harm the game?

As it stands, only players with a lot of time can participate in this content despite the fact that everyone purchased the same game. If the majority of people can't participate due to kids, work, or school as it currently stands, wouldn't the game only stand to gain subs by making it more accessible? Without a streamlined system, a player with 1.5 hours may spend half of that, easily, just looking for a party to go the dungeon with.

I'm afraid the only thing i don't understand is the resistance to making streamlined systems so we can all get to the actual challenging content in less time. Why is it that you feel only players who can spend their whole life on the game deserve to participate in a dungeon?

Leves were not "casual party content" although they could be done by casual parties, and still can. They were *THE ONLY* party content. I have no problem with people with limited time doing the content. That's not the issue. I have an issue with casual players demanding that devs give them an easy way into *everything*. That's what the problem here is. Right now you have to do it like everyone else. You don't want to. You want them to walk you to front door, grab three random people who also want their hands held to the front door and say "Here you go, dearies. Do you need your diapers changed before you start?"

[HiirNoivl]

mysterytaru:

You must be having the same problem with the dungeons as I've been.

Maysaiyan and Alym:

Don't go to the dungeon with an eggtimer and say, "Hey party people, Timer starts now, get to dungeon crawling." If you don't have the time to get together 8 r 45+ members you can't play the dungeon THAT DAY. Go take care of what you need to take care of, and come back when you have time. The dungeons will still be there I promise.

But don't blame the devs for a lack of personal time management.

It would also help if you had a Linkshell. Linkshells hold dungeon runs and all you have to do is show up on time. It's as close to an instant party as things get. In fact, you can now invite from your Linkshell members list. Before you complain about finding parties you might want to try that.

[Anonymoose]

Every time I see the word "Casual" or "Hardcore," I can't help but wish I had the power to backhand people over Standard TCP/IP. This is why some people are game designers, and some people are not. If some players seek to define themselves by such a simplistic and wholly meaningless binary, fine, but don't drag the rest of us into it.

This game doesn't have "casuals" and "hardcores," it just has "Players," and each individual has a unique style and accessibility. Trust that Team Yoshi-P will strive to find a line of best fit between all players, not just you red-flag/blue-flag flamemongers.

[Preypacer]

So they're not moving away from guildleves as the primary content but yet that's what Yoshi said they were doing?

You want to have a serious discussion about this, or are you going to just keep deliberately twisting my words around so you can remain willfully ignorant?

Before, GuildLeves were going to the be the game's primary method of progress, for solo and for groups. To point out the obvious, just in case: "Primary" =/= "Only".

With Yoshi taking over, it's been decided that Leves will remain in place but with a focus more on Casual Content; things that people without a lot of time can do in 30 minutes, an hour, whatever, and then log out without having to worry about dedicating hours to it. You can still do leves in a group, just pick a higher difficulty rating and/or take leves at the high end of the group's capabilities. There are still behests. There will certainly be other forms of content implemented for people with less time to play.

For those with more time to play, other forms of content have been brought into the picture, or adjusted f they already existed, that are focused more around long-term group play, such as group sp parties, larger dungeons, etc.

Casual players still have content they can do as a group. Nothing's been "taken away".

It's really not that difficult to wrap your head around.

I never mentioned teleporting to a camp for partying, simply the means to create a group faster and streamlining the process. As it stands, if you could get a party together for the 25 dungeon, everyone just needs to teleport anywhere around camp tranquil and run for 2 minutes. The issue isn't travel - it's the system used to put the group together. Groups shouldn't be exclusive to the people with the time to shout/look longer/have more time to make friends in game.

If you're only concerned about having a more efficient way of locating members to put together a group, then I don't think you're going to find much disagreement on that.

[LuxLex]

Honestly, if the devs want to make money, they will target a market filled with people who have money in their pockets, and guess what, people who play videogames 8+ hours a day aren't a market with a lot of money in their pockets.

So, suggestions like the OP's are good stuff, cause casuals are the only chance this game has.

I play my current MMO more than casually a lot of the time, but it is nice to be able to log in (even if only for 30 mins) and get something done. I don't see why there can't be group content tuned for that kind of playstyle. I mean, crikes, when I boot up Final Fantasy IX on my PSP a little message pops up telling me to take a 15 minute break every hour when I play.

If the gaming industry acknowledges that playing a single player game for more than an hour straight isn't good for you, how is it possible for the same gaming industry to not recognize the importance of designing an mmo that can be enjoyed by people who play a healthy and reasonable amount?