So Second Coil has been destroyed

[StouterTaru]

The EX primals also have rewards that are much more sought after than substandard gear for an alt job.

[Prototype909]

The EX primals also have rewards that are much more sought after than substandard gear for an alt job.

Such as...? The same iLvl equipment (Or lower) as these instances and vanity weapons?

[Mariel-Shironeko]

Opening it up to DF alone would of been fine. DFs do clear Titan EX/Leviathan/Ramuh. I'd say Ramuh's on a very similar level of difficulty to T7 for similar reasons.

You have a point, with DF its more quickly enter to coil and not wait so much for PF.
I'm dislike the nerf and change difficulty on Second Coil, really anger me but if the people increase and stay focused on learned, i hope benefits to all.

[Coldbrand]

Exaggeration.

Maybe Ragnarok sucks? I have no problems consistently clearing EX primals on Excalibur. This was made especially true after the nexus update ensuring more experienced players would be spamming trials to do lights. Alternatively you could just of added more desynth/4* mats to T6-9 to guarantee experienced players tagging along in DF. But sure, we should totally destroy these fights (and they have been totally destroyed, they're no longer even remotely challenging on any level whatsoever and are substantially easier than content which is introduced much earlier in the game IE Ultima HM.) Also you act like DF is purely harder, it isn't. You can make an unlimited # of attempts, and potentially be paired with people much better than you're used to playing with.

[Ghishlain]

Remember the Armorer Quests?Midway though that story lien you are introduced to a Roegadin named Blansytr. He thinks that the Guildmaster letting her students know the art of armorsmithing is resulting in more shoddy armor being made, as opposed to quality armor. He points out that crappy armor could get someone killed and only wants experienced armorsmiths like himself to handle commissions, being very cynical about the guild's student's progress

The Guildmaster, H'annaza however is very idealistic and wants to help the students make quality armor despite what Blansytr thinks. And she thinks that is Blansytr had his way the art would die out.

There's a lot of parallels you can draw from that story arc to end game raiding indeed. If the elitists keep squeezing out very person "that isn't up to their standards", then you will eventually choke the pool out of all potential recruits and kill the raiding scene entirely with their clique-ish like attitude towards things. At the same time, there will be a group of players that will never have the aptitude to raid because of their native skill level, and no amount of gear and/or nerfs will be able to allow them to succeed. S-E needs to strike the balance to allow enough players to proceed and keep the raiding pool relatively full without diluting it to the point where "everyone is bad".

To me, if you put raiding into (arbitrary numbering) math, it looks like this:

A + B + C + D + E + F + G > 2,000
A = (X)(Y) + Z
Y >= 60

A to G represents their individual raid scores
2,000 is the number to exceed to pass the raid check.
X = Practice Time (ranging from 0.5 to 2)
Y = Skill Level (ranging from 0 - 100, must exceed 60 or you will automatically fail your raid score check)
Z = Equipment Level (ranging from 0 - 100)

What S-E has done with these changes is adjust the 2,000 to about 1,500 and lower the minimum Y to like 40 (again, also my own arbitrary thought process being used).

By lowering the overall bar, there can now be more people who join the overall recruitment pool to keep raiders topped off in potential recruits for Final Coil. At this point, there will be some people who won't be able to do the latest raid but there will be others who can and thus preventing "the art from dying out".

I honestly don't see how this can be a bad thing. Elites will have their clears listed in their achievements before the nerf date, and should take pride in that. No need to scorn those who didn't complete it before hand because there could be a multitude of reasons for that happening.

-------

I think the very real complaint in this thread that I agree with are players wanting to see Second Coil in all its original glory and are now unable to due to the way S-E hammered the nerfs. Say what you will about "doing Savage Coil", Savage Coil isn't a facsimile of original Coil, instead it has INCREASED difficulty from original Coil, thus it is still not the same experience either. These players want to see Coil as how it was originally tuned, not how it was tuned for the bleeding edge of elite hardcore to handle. In some respects, keeping Coil as is and implementing a storyline-style Coil with these mechanical nerfs (as well as no loot) would've been more beneficial , and I can see the argument and logic behind that.

[Izsha]

I'm looking forward to the threads about how t9 is sooooo much harder than 6-8 and it's not fair demanding nerfs.

Dramatic easing like this just kicks the can down the road. The same complaints we heard about 5 we will hear about 9. It's same shit different day. Those that can't complete it as designed will moan until the next hurdle is lowered. Those that jump it easily will moan how it was lowered. People just need to accept their capabilities. If you can't clear content until it's nerfed then WAIT PATIENTLY. It will come to you eventually. Stop demanding nerfs. They will happen in time. If you can high jump already then move forward. 47 paged of the same drivel as we saw 6 months ago and will see 6 months from now 8s terribly tiresom, but always entertaining!

/gets more popcorn.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

There was a reason why people went "boo" on the Fanfest. No one wanted this nerf, people who got over the fight didn`t want it cause those turns are not hard at all and they were just fine for them, people who couldnt get them prior to nerf now can`t overcome the challenge other players did and feel like they are perpetually being left behind/giving handouts/playing easier content which is terrible because players like challenge, they like to achive things even if it takes them months to do so.

This nerf appeals to no one, has no reason to be, just like FCoB didn`t make any sense. SE needs to stop this policy of "everything 3 months or older needs to be nerfed to the ground". Communities can stand just so much powercreep and nerfing of content. The rising of iLvl cap was more than enough to face the challenges of SCoB for players that didn`t make it before patch.

[Coldbrand]

They should bring this design to all games: the little gaps between jumps in the new Mario game should gradually close up over time so more players can experience seeing Princess Peach give Mario a kiss. Or if you wanted to do it on 2.41 terms you could simply level the entire world into a flat plane. Don't worry though, it came packaged with the lost levels and some sadistic Japanese ROMhack.

[Nel_Celestine]

There was a reason why people went "boo" on the Fanfest. No one wanted this nerf,

I was at fanfest. I didn't boo, there were others around me that didn't boo either. Please don't speak for everyone, speak only for yourself.

[craig_meredith2003]

There was a reason why people went "boo" on the Fanfest. No one wanted this nerf, people who got over the fight didn`t want it cause those turns are not hard at all and they were just fine for them, people who couldnt get them prior to nerf now can`t overcome the challenge other players did and feel like they are perpetually being left behind/giving handouts/playing easier content which is terrible because players like challenge, they like to achive things even if it takes them months to do so.

This nerf appeals to no one, has no reason to be, just like FCoB didn`t make any sense. SE needs to stop this policy of "everything 3 months or older needs to be nerfed to the ground". Communities can stand just so much powercreep and nerfing of content.

Just curious some boos at fanfest speaks for the entire player base? So i guess when no one wanted it SE just and went and did their own thing. time anyway.