Thanks for making Second Coil more accessible

[Nalien]

I wonder the same. What is the point of purposely waiting for something to get so nerfed down that you are gifted gear for as minimal effort as possible? Word that comes to mind is "entitled".

Funny, the word that comes to my mind for people who want Coil to remain as is (even though Savage mode is untouched) is "entitled", too. I mean, when you've done the content already, how exactly does SE opening it up to a greater range of players effect you, exactly? It's nothing more than elitist entitlement, you enjoyed the content but Gods forbid they lower the bar so others can. How dare they cater to filthy casuals as well. How about you just get over it and go back to enjoying the Final Coil of Bahamut, instead? Or Savage mode which players just doing Second Coil will probably never touch?

I also find it hilarious that you think nerfed Coil for the Duty Finder is something that means players are "gifted gear for as minimal effort as possible"... Have you tried t5 on the Duty Finder?

[Tupsi]

I mean, when you've done the content already, how exactly does SE opening it up to a greater range of players effect you, exactly?

As mean as this will sound I'll be straightforward:

If you do runs outside of your FC and/or static, SE opening it up to more people mean you'll be bashing your head against the wall trying to clear content with people who barely could get past T5 and still barely can get past T5 with 25% buff.

Now ask yourself this question:

If people can barely get past T5 the finally beat it after the nerfs (yes there were some including reduced HP) and obviously didn't touch 2nd coil until it was buffed with echo..how do you expect to get past T6-9 with them which is more mechanic driven than First Coil? It doesn't affect you like "omg my specialness!" it makes life harder if people need nerfs in order to do content. I don't really see the ones complaining as a 'temper tantrum' and more "Why didn't you attempt the content before SE went in and nerfed it and applied the Echo?"

So does it affect me? Not really, but does it mean something for the community? Definitely. There's a reason the community is pretty toxic when it comes to progression content and when it gets "accessible".

[Nalien]

As mean as this will sound I'll be straightforward:

I've seen more learning party shouts today than I've seen in the past month for Second Coil. That is how they've opened it up to a greater number of players. It is easier to complete, you can fill missing slots easily with the Duty Finder (Duty Finder is only really hell when everyone goes in solo), and the elitist stigma is gone, at least partially. By no means is it now accessible to every single player, but these changes have made it more accessible than it previously was. That is a simple fact.

I don't really see the ones complaining as a 'temper tantrum' and more "Why didn't you attempt the content before SE went in and nerfed it and applied the Echo?"

Same reason not everyone enjoys Dark Souls? Not everyone playing this game is playing it for the challenge, some people just want to casually enjoy the content; the difficulty and elitist attitude previously surrounding Second Coil is now partially gone, and the people who do want a challenge now have Final Coil and still have Savage mode. There is nothing to complain about here, just temper tantrums.

[Tupsi]

I've seen more learning party shouts today than I've seen in the past month for Second Coil.

That sounds server specific - I've seen more learning parties for second coil (and clear parties) in the past month since 2.4 released than I ever have since the first 2 months of second coil being released due to people being more willing to try with unlimited sands/oils/i100-110 gear falling in your lap without having to deal with hunt toxicity.. It was made more accessible by allowing the people who barely got past T5 to now try to attempt it now that they eased on the mechanics but didn't outright remove them. This is why I said it may sound mean, but if people had to wait for it to be nerfed and you buffed to even attempt it..it will lead to a bit of toxic behavior from the community. Heck what you described was already true:

2.4 they removed the weekly lockout meaning nothing stopped you from shouting for learning parties. It was already made more accessible in that regard, now it's more accessible by SE nerfing it. This is why it seems like some are throwing a tantrum.

Same reason not everyone enjoys Dark Souls?

While I dislikes these games, I would assume people would enjoy a challenge rather than wait for the game to become easier to try it

[Nalien]

That sounds server specific

I suppose it is, though 2.4 itself was still a slight "nerf" to Second Coil (through buffing players/lockout removal), so a similar effect is expected.

While I dislikes these games, I would assume people would enjoy a challenge rather than wait for the game to become easier to try it

Depends on a players priorities. Some do Coil for gear, some do it for a challenge, some do it for the story, or a combination of the three. If you want to do Coil solely to wrap up the Bahamut story, then challenge is more of a roadblock than something to enjoy.

[Moomba33]

Personally I'm mostly interested in coil for the story so I welcome these nerfs.
I doubt I ever could have cleared t7 as it was originally.

As it is I'm unlikely to clear t9 anytime soon but I'm looking forward to making what progress I can. I did finally manage t5 recently so maybe I'll manage t9 by 4.0.

[RyuDragnier]

Personally I'm mostly interested in coil for the story so I welcome these nerfs.
I doubt I ever could have cleared t7 as it was originally.

As it is I'm unlikely to clear t9 anytime soon but I'm looking forward to making what progress I can. I did finally manage t5 recently so maybe I'll manage t9 by 4.0.

Oh T7 was pretty easy before IMO, and that's with me not having a clear due to an incompetent party.

If you are a DPS who isn't the kiter, just beat down the main boss and the lamias, and if you get the voice, throw it away from everybody else (preferably outside of the arena).

If you're a DPS who is a kiter, normal attack a Renauld the second it pops, and lure it to the direction the healers are facing so it'll get voiced and petrified by the healers. You too must throw the voice away if you get it, but be sure you don't kill the Renaulds, they're needed petrified and alive.

If you're a healer, position yourself with the other healer just at the bottom inner part of the arena, turn off the auto-face to use skills thing, and just heal and stand there, so the Renaulds are voiced and petrified when the kiter kites them into position.

Whomever gets shriek, run BEHIND the petrified Renauld while not in its hit box so shriek will not effect the rest of the party.

I can't really go into tank specifics because they're pretty much the same as always, grab boss/adds, hold them in position. But they too must throw away the voice.

How hard is that? I mean really, how hard is that?

[RakaMaimhov]

hunt toxicity.

Things must be very different server by server.

I see no learning parties for SCoB up in PF atm, although I can't comment on whether there have been any on my server since 2.4 at all as I have been busy with other things and haven't looked.

On the other hand, my server had an organized teamspeak channel for hunts that everyone was welcome to join. They also tried to accommodate people who didn't have TS (which required shouting around a little bit to get noticed). All that is dead now, of course, since the incentive to do hunts is gone as they don't provide useful tomes and are a harder alternative to sands/oils now. So our hunt scene was never toxic on Excalibur.

[ReplicaX]

There's a reason the community is pretty toxic when it comes to progression content and when it gets "accessible".

There are too many variables out there from both sides of the fence Tupsi and you know them so I will refrain from repeatedly listing them. I think SE handles dated content well for something they have stated since Day One. Some folks seriously just need to let go from both sides.

[XoanGrahm]

Funny, the word that comes to my mind for people who want Coil to remain as is (even though Savage mode is untouched) is "entitled", too.

The thing is, there is a difference. It is entitlement to expect the same rewards for less effort. Those not wanting it to be nerfed expect you to work just as hard for the things they did(gear or clear). That's not entitlement, its fairness.

To those that say we all pay the same amount for the game we should all have the same access, you do. If your knowledge, perseverance, and execution are up to par. Its like saying everyone pays the same for college, we should all get degrees regardless. But I garauntee that not everyone will get that degree. Why, because they don't have the knowledge, the preseverence, or are unable to execute. Would you want a college dropout in the same job pool as you as a engineer? or a doctor?