2.41 patch, Ninja nerf for the Ninjas and Dungeons.

[Kiara1]

Did they get Trick Attack off on you? Because if they did that was your fault for not sitting in Shadow Flare.

I'm not usually one to laugh at my enemies in Frontlines, but when I Trick Attack (which has a directional requirement btw OP) and melt a Scholar/Summoner who was just sitting there solo, I can't help myself. Put Shadow Flare down and make Hide irrelevant, and don't hold a flag solo, have someone else hiding off somewhere. Drawing a Ninja in for a 1v1 only to turn it into a 2v1 is the easiest way to deal with them.

Playing to the same old dynamic when they've just added an entirely new dynamic to Frontlines (a stealth class) is what's getting most people killed by Ninjas and claiming they're overpowered.

No they used some kinda charge attack (like monk shoulder tackle) when node spawned, and killed me I guess node could've done some damage to me as well, but still no other class could've done that

[Violyre]

I think the only real boss in the new dungeons should be to the kraken. Take some HP off the body, move it to the arms. That fight is a battle for longevity, and there's no reason for such a simple mechanic fight to go on that long. Give the body invinibility while arms are out, something, just lower its HP.

[Nalien]

No they used some kinda charge attack (like monk shoulder tackle) when node spawned, and killed me I guess node could've done some damage to me as well, but still no other class could've done that

Except Monk? Heck, I've done the same thing on Paladin; run around using Stun at the right time so people eat AoE and finishing them off in seconds. For Monk though, Shoulder Tackle, Arm of the Destroyer, Steel Peak is basically the same as Ninjas Overwhelm, Ill Wind, Jugulate. Both are very good at taking down mages, Ninjas only real advantage comes from opening from stealth (which is easy enough to counter) and Raiton, which I do think needs a potency nerf. Mid is really too hectic to base Job balance on though, in my opinion. 1v1 at mid while nodes are up sounds extremely odd to me, unless it was the last set.

[Parodine]

NIN snip.

The tools that NIN brings to frontlines makes it rather OP. A passive 20% dmg increase. A passive movement speed increase independent of that (the real killer). Ninjitsu for ranged damage, few directional requirements for its core dmging attacks. The trick attack vuln up is just icing on the cake. It melts casters in ways DRGs and MNKs simply can't.

I know it's hard to admit when you're having fun playing a particular job in PVP. I used to be that way in Wolves Den with SMN before the nerf, but in retrospect it was very obvious how broken it was. I think that's how it will be when they (hopefully) nerf NIN. In PVP anyway.

[Kiara1]

blip

Node, not drones.
Yes if I were stunned inside aoe i would be fine with it, but that was the damage takem from node which deals damage to everyone. Meaning the ninja took the same amount of damage.
i used ruin 2, surecast,miasma and one energy drain and then I was dead and ninja was at ~80% hp.
A monk could only do that with full stacks of greased lightning. And before ninjas, monk and marauders were the hardest to go one on one with. But that would be a longer fight where Id get 3 dots up and usually when one of us died the other one would be really low.
Now i feel ninja overpowers them both.

[AckersFury]

I think the only real boss in the new dungeons should be to the kraken. Take some HP off the body, move it to the arms. That fight is a battle for longevity, and there's no reason for such a simple mechanic fight to go on that long. Give the body invinibility while arms are out, something, just lower its HP.

Thisssss, that fight is a complete snooze fest

[Nalien]

A passive movement speed increase independent of that (the real killer).

Really? I've found it almost worthless. I'm either hidden, in which case moving slowly, or using Sprint to chase someone down or escape, which overwrites that. In skirmishes I feel the same as I did on Marauder and other DPS, because people finally stopped running in circles and started being unpredictable in their movements.

Raiton is the main issue, I really don't get why it is quite as powerful as it is and with the range it has, even in PvE. That 15y range needs to be reigned back to 5y, Fuma Shuriken just feels worthless otherwise.

I know it's hard to admit when you're having fun playing a particular job in PVP.

Honestly? Lately I'm not having quite as much fun on it. People seem to have started to wisen up to what Ninja can do and how they can counteract them. Rather than swooping in and capturing points because people are unaware of Hide and its counters, I feel more like a scout reporting numbers. Still fun, but scouting certainly doesn't feel as powerful as taking a lone fool by surprise.

Node, not drones.

Then I really don't know how you died in a 1v1 situation. 1v1 during Node just doesn't seem like a thing to me, even if I felt I was 1v1ing someone up there, I wouldn't consider it a basis for passing judgment on a Job given how many people should be up there at the time.

[Kiara1]

Then I really don't know how you died in a 1v1 situation. 1v1 during Node just doesn't seem like a thing to me, even if I felt I was 1v1ing someone up there, I wouldn't consider it a basis for passing judgment on a Job given how many people should be up there at the time.

No its not, he caught me by surprise when I was about to dot up the node and just charged in, and everyone was so focused on killing the drone so we kinda had a one vs one where my entire party was.
I started using shadow play (a recording software) and if I get 3 seconds killed again in frontlines ill post a video!

[Tonkra]

Ninja should be nerfed, at least in Frontlines.

Ninja is the LEAST class which i really bother about in PVP..

i dont know what should be so "overpowered" about ninjas.

As a blm i need about 4 spells to kill them.. i just can sleep, slow them.. and thats about them.
Magic shield grunts me an instant "stoneskin" against magic damage like raiton.


For me as a caster Bards are much more of a danger than Ninjas are.. (instant ranged attacks that rupt)
i myself think ninja is incredibly weak if you ask me^


I remember Dark Age of Camelot where assassins ripped off about 60% HP with one single stealth attack.. that was the trade of for just wearing leather and having low HP. in FFXIV the stealth attack steels me just around 15-20% HP wohoo..
and the fire AEO of Ninja is completely gimped as well, especially if you have that long recast time in mind.. i dont think ninjas need a nerf. they should be glass canons. right now they are more glass than canons if you ask me.

Raiton is the main issue

Raiton does not make much more damage as the third skill of a melee skill chain.

Plus you have to have in mind, that raiton has a long reuse time.. and you need to perform 3 clicks in a row which takes about 2 s..
as a blm i do definatley more damage with one fire spell that has about 3 s cast time and no re-use timer.

Raiton has to make more damage than one single melee attack skill to be even worth to cast it..

if you lower the damage and range it is almost as useless as shuriken and the fire aeo.

the fire aeo is just usefull when you want to hit about 4-5 enemies at the same time. but the damage itself is laughable.


just to show you how an assassin in Dark Age of Camelot used to be, damage wise:
DAOC Nightshade PVP - Youtbe

[Nalien]

if you lower the damage and range it is almost as useless as shuriken and the fire aeo.

320 potency and 5y range is perfectly useful for a cooldown skill which I can easily fit between GCDs... Fuma Shuriken is the only worthless Ninjutsu in practically every situation, any time you could use it, you're better off using Raiton solely because Raiton has such range on it. Huton and Suiton have obvious uses. Doton and Katon are for AoE situations. Hyoton was practically tailored for PvP escapes.

Raiton is simply overpowered with its current range/potency. One or both have to go. It is especially prominent in PvP, where double Raiton is nearly lethal, and where anyone trying to run away on moderate health can suddenly find themselves dead BECAUSE Raiton is so potent and ranged.

If they make any change to Ninja, it should be knocking Raiton down a peg.

As far as PvE goes, Ninja is still pretty overpowered in my opinion. A proper Ninjutsu rotation (not just Raiton spam) outclasses most every other Jobs cooldown rotations, and its GCD and DoT damage is superior as well. There is a reason I'm always dying on Ninja; it's because I'm always pulling hate purely from how much damage I'm dealing. Ninja is by far my favorite Job in this game, but I'm under no illusions that it isn't overpowered, the only aspect of it which isn't overtuned compared to other Jobs is its survivability. Same HP/Def/M.Def and Monk, but all it has is Perfect Dodge (which is very situational useful, like Cyclops Swing attacks, but mostly useless) and Second Wind. Monk and Dragoon have stronger Second Wind, extra survivability skills and Bloodbath.